Removing engine/swingarm/suspension "holder"

Basically, I want to remove the engine/swingarm/suspension "holder," left and right sides. Powder coating and anodizing 'em.

I've removed all the other aluminum/silver-colored stuff from each side (kickstand, suspension linkage pieces, rearsets, etc.), but I was cautioned not to remove the last 2 pieces, the 2 "holders." Some say the engine will drop if they are removed; others say it could drop if the bike was bumped. Still others say the only way to remove them is to suspend the engine itself.

What's more, I can't even purchase the pieces online because the R, with the adjustable swingarm pivot feature, is different than the parts listed for the base, S, and Tricolore.

So...anyone taken this piece off without having to dissect the bike into 2 pieces? Anyone done it on the R?

BTW, since I don't have many pics of it, you can go to ProItalia's website and look up parts # 8291A431BA (page 71, position 12) and # 8291A441AA (page 89, position 20).

another pic of the holder

I photoshopped the part in front of my foot by circling it with a blurry circle (sorry, that's the best circle I could come up with).

Again, it's the aluminum colored piece in front of and slightly above my toes. This part of it aims straight up toward the shock linkage piece.

I know it's not the greatest view of the item, but just try looking at your 1199, where all the other aluminum colored stuff attaches (rearset, shock linkage, rear-lower/rear-middle engine attaches).

i'll have to check but i'm sure you will have to support the engine which , in itself may very well require taking the termi off... i'm not sure it will support the engine whitout it getting damaged.. i should know by Friday if all is well..



grtz

I already have the rear subframe "suspended." Do you think that would hold the engine up OR do you think it needs to be suspended separately?

If all else fails, I'm considering buying the 2 pieces, ceramic-ing them, then replacing each, one-by-one. Do you think I would still have to suspend the engine (in addition to the subframe already being held up) if I did them one at a time like that?

from my understanding and what i have seen on the bike so far, if you suspend the bike on the rear and front sub frames, you should be able to take the pieces off. the motor itself is a structural part, so it will be holding everything together anyway...

cheers,

Phil

Phil said:

from my understanding and what i have seen on the bike so far, if you suspend the bike on the rear and front sub frames, you should be able to take the pieces off. the motor itself is a structural part, so it will be holding everything together anyway...

cheers,

Phil

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So, the rear subframe is propped up securely. If the front is still attached to the fork tree--wheel planted on the ground--Phil, that should support the front of the engine, right?

Oddly, the R manual doesn't explain how to adjust the angle of the swingarm. Who knows whether this requires suspending the bike vs just gently easing up on or slightly compressing the suspension?

Think I should start a thread on how to adjust the swingarm angle? After all, if that's supposed to be a cool new advantage, somebody ought to know how to actually do it.

i hear it's a 25 minute job ... but could be a very usefull thread! tx

kope999R said:

i hear it's a 25 minute job ... but could be a very usefull thread! tx

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If it's a 25 minute job, that must mean it's not too difficult. My question is when you release the pinch bolts how do you adjust the swingarm angle? Do you have to support the bike? Keep it from sagging? Lift it or hang it temporarily?

Of course all that leads back to my question, which is, if you release the pinch bolts and loosen the bolts connecting to the engine, Does the engine stay up or does it hit the ground?

By the looks of the large bolt going through the engine holder and through the swingarm, I'm guessing/hoping that removing the engine holder piece has no effect on the engine or the swingarm when the bike stationary. I just don't want to find out the hard way.

-- if you adjust the swingarm, which is to help with settings depending on the characteristics of each track, does the chain need to be shortened or lengthened, or will simply adjusting it suffice ?

-- how intrusive would the change be in effecting street riding ?

RD16RR said:

-- if you adjust the swingarm, which is to help with settings depending on the characteristics of each track, does the chain need to be shortened or lengthened, or will simply adjusting it suffice ?

-- how intrusive would the change be in effecting street riding ?

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From what I understand, you don't need to do anything with the chain.

As for why to change the angle, it's more for the elite who notice a slight difference on certain tracks. Probably rarely an issue on the street; in fact, as far as I know, the manual doesn't even give instructions on how we can change the angle.

If you want to hear the technical jargon, Ducati says this about the adjustable pivot swingarm:

By moving the pivot of the swingarm up, the chain pull angle increases, thus extending the single rear shock absorber. In this way the rear dive effect while accelerating is reduced, and consequently the unabsorbed torque is returned to provide greater drive. Should there be poor grip or rain, the 1199 Panigale R allows the swingarm to be adjusted to use lower chain pull angles, which make the application of the torque more linear and so provide greater stability.

- yes...i had seen that.......

If you remove the footrest hangar cast supports that bolt to the engine, the swing arm pivot bolts remain in situ. However on the left side you will need to remove the shock and linkage to take the left hand plate off and your swing arm will extend up, without a spring or ride height adjuster to support it. For that reason you MUST support the engine as the front forks alone and wheel will not prevent the rear end from collapsing. Not sure how best to support it and you will also need to remove the exhaust system to place support underneath the motor. Ducati sell a specific engine stand and liner that the engine sits in, which you can jack up and down. I am sure you can fashion your own system. Just make sure the engine is not stressed on whatever it is resting and is secure and ensure there is no load or weight bearing on the now free swing arm, before you replace the two side castings onto the engine. If all you are undoing is the pinch bolts on the castings, then nothing is going to move, as the swing arm pivots around these "axle bolts", which the casting grips onto using the pinch bolts. The plates simply pinch on the outer ends of these "axle" bolts (which do not rotate obviously) as an anchorage point, to spread the load, as opposed to just bolting to the engine at the top. If you have the rear sub-frame supported, then just make sure that the rear wheel is off and the swing arm is off the ground. You will need to lower the swingarm gently so that it rests on something protective (taking care that the rear disc will probably touch first, hence why there must be NO load on it. Personally I would not want to support the weight of the rear of the bike from the subframe, as it is designed to bear loads in the opposite direction, ie your weight from above, so I would still recommend supporting the engine from underneath so it bears all the load and not your suspension or subframe!

Incidentally if you contact Guido at Shift-Tech.com he has powder coated his plates black. He might be able to give you further guidance on how to safely remove them. Not sure anodising them would look good, as they are cast parts not machined, so you will end up with a very dull looking set of parts. Please post up some pics when you can. I am contemplating doing the same to mine and have got to take the airbox assembly/front end off the bike to replace two hoses with a SAMCO kit as there is no other way to get to them seemingly. Might frighten myself with the cost of the engine stand, if I end up dissecting the whole bike. One of the prices you pay I guess for no frame!

I know this is a old thread but has anyone tried changing the OEM pivot bolts on a 15/16 1199R to titanium but can't seem to find anything. Podium Racing makes them for the base, S and older R models without the pivot adjust setup.

This is the parts diagram of the 16 R as you can see its got some crazy eccentric/cam parts for the pivot.

Podium sells them with and without the center bolt. I use them on the 1299. They wear in about 4K miles on the roller bearing side. I just swap that side if it gets bad. So far they have held up without issue

Hey Endo thanks on the wear info yeah I only saw the ones without the center bolt so will check with them if the other version is available.

endodoc said:

Podium sells them with and without the center bolt. I use them on the 1299. They wear in about 4K miles on the roller bearing side. I just swap that side if it gets bad. So far they have held up without issue

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Here is a bad pic of the kit

endodoc said:

Here is a bad pic of the kit

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This kit actually doesn't make sense to me.

The two big screws are for the R and SL (torque is nowhere specified. But there is a TSB that states 80Nm).

The two big bolts (I don't know what they are called in English) are for all Base and S models. You cant take them for R and SLs.

Yeah they don't even show it on there website I even looked in there eBay store. It definitely doesn't make sense either. The SL, S and base models seem to just use the big giant bolts only. The 16 R uses both of them cause of the adjustable pivot setup.

Mick1976 said:

Yeah they don't even show it on there website I even looked in there eBay store. It definitely doesn't make sense either. The SL, S and base models seem to just use the big giant bolts only. The 16 R uses both of them cause of the adjustable pivot setup.

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Nope, SL has same pivot as R