Second opinion on Dyno results and loss of power

So took my bike in about 2 weeks ago for hesitation around 5k rpm & loss of power @ full throttle at any rpm. It all started after a full up . I ran a whole tank and another 1/2 through to get the suspected bad gas out. Same issue.. I can give full throttle on the freeway and it bogs down compared to before. Still Reba all the way up,but above 50% throttle it's slow to rev.

I suspect the internal filter inside the fuel pump houseing to be plugged,and or a plugged or faulty injectors. The dealer wants more $ to diagnose yet says " air fuel is perfect and can't replicate issue".

I have a 2016 1299s w full akro and upmap w 3000k miles
It has been FLAWLESS and a thing of beauty until 2 weeks ago.
They also checked the carbon canister and no raw fuel.

The map (air fuel line) was perfect after the system and upmap,now it's super lean,then rick,them leaner than before.
Also it used to backfire on all upshifts w quick shifter until this started,now it does not at all..

I see the huge flat spot from about 5-8k rpm and seems to to be down on power from 1st dyno.. also latest dyno less peal power and torque curve erratic?
Help/advice??

Thanks!!

Safety wire the exhaust flapper valve open. It might be closing on the throttle.

Twistedracer said:

Safety wire the exhaust flapper valve open. It might be closing on the throttle.

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He has the full Akra. No flapper.

Were the pulls done on the same dyno?

it's easy to pull out the fuel pump and examine the filter, you mind as well change it and the mesh cover while you're at it - I've been told the quality of those parts are terrible

Yes same dyno,but a year apart and it seems they changed software so it's formatted differently and hard to compare.

From what I've heard read I can remove the fuel pump assembly,but can't remove the "inside" fuel filter. Since I have no codes the dealer wanted to charge me to "clean my fuel filter since I was concerned" but after I had to argue with them for 1/2 hour,they finally looked into it and told me "it's not serviceable,but we can inspect it and estimate for replacement"..
It's $1200 and I'd have no way to prove it's clogged for warranty to cover it. So I may just take it out and see if I can remove the inside filter all together and install the MWR sock filter.

It's killin me because my bike ran perfect,then it didn't. The dealer wants me to pay to change the spark plugs and run some fuel cleaner. Both carry no warranty so I'll have to do those myself as well..

Then I'll have to change/clean the fuel injectors myself too if still no luck because I can't prove/test those are faulty for warranty to cover @ $366 each..

Not sure if I'm even going in the right direction??

fuelling system lost the correction map?

A real tune (not the generic up-map) would be half the cost of messing with the spark plugs, fuel filter, etc. I'd start there and put it back on the dyno. You mentioned the AFR being way off but they look well within range to me.

I def plan to go RB or TB,but after warranty. I really feel this is somehow mechanical since it ran flawlessly for 2500 miles and has no faults or codes. I just don't want to pay the dealer to try to "test" the fuel pump and injectors. Is that even possible??

Since I'm suspecting fuel contamination as the cause I'm at a loss to have warranty pay. I have called Ducati and they are getting in touch with my dealer to make sure they contact the Local Area Mgr to ask for further testing ideas.

Main symptoms are
1) hesitation around 5k on acceleration
2) WOT at any RPm struggles to rev vs instant b4

if the AFR values actually have changed, get new O2 sensors. Without O2 correction, the values are even uglier, which makes me think it's a more extensive use of closed loop regulation than what I've seen before...

As for warranty, what if you log your AFR lines before and after the tune? Worked for me over here...

It also could be something as simple as needing new spark plugs.

It's pretty hard to diagnose because the symptoms could be a wide range of problems. My money would be on it being a software over hardware issue though.

I would assume if the O2 sensors were bad there would be a code? No? I've had tons of issues on my old 2 stroke RD 350 and changing the plugs was where I always started. The hard part is that it ran perfect,then after a fill up it starts hesitating on corner exit and at WOT it revs slower than my old 749s!! Sure it's peak HP is only 6/7 off the original dyno chart,but it seems to struggle to get there,even in 2nd gear on the freeway. That's why I've been leaning towards a plugged fuel filter or secondary injectors. Under 1/2 throttle it's still a beast,that's why the dealer has a hard time noticing my complaint when riding it I guess. It has just been super smooth and even in 6th gear I can dump it WOT and see ya!!

It's truly like night and day since that last ride. My dealers exact words " your problem isn't electronic... we need another hour to remove the tank and clean your fuel filter,since you seem convinced it's clogged or we can put injector cleaner in for you too & change spark plugs,your AFR is SPOT ON"....

To me on the 1st dyno run it looks "spot on" and it ran killer!
Now it looks super lean,then rich(thus sputter) ,then its creeping toward lean at the 4-8k rpm range,then back to "spot on"...

Also where did my awesome backfire go during upshifts!? It was like clockwork.. pow pow! Now nothing & no power.. seems starved for fuel to me..??

Fuel filter in the tank pump, can pull it apart and clean.

http://ducati1299.com/ducati-1299/25823-psa-clean-your-fuel-filters.html

That's just the screen filter. It seems there is another filter built into the plastic housing of the assembly. I've seen pics but think it has to be cut out,I'm not sure.

JBrowny said:

I would assume if the O2 sensors were bad there would be a code?

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O2 sensors would not necessarily throw a code, only if it failed completely.

JBrowny said:

That's just the screen filter. It seems there is another filter built into the plastic housing of the assembly. I've seen pics but think it has to be cut out,I'm not sure.

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Ive never pulled one apart either if there is two I would doubt you would have clean screen filter but bad fuel filter, the screen is doing 99% of filtering.

Halo2 said:

Ive never pulled one apart either if there is two I would doubt you would have clean screen filter but bad fuel filter, the screen is doing 99% of filtering.

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Can anybody with experience removing internal filter comment on this? I assumed the screen was larger size,like a pre-filter? If people are having issues losing power from the fuel pump,I assumed it was fine particulates on the paper internal filter. I'm concidering buying a used pump assembly for cheap on eBay and removing,paper filter and screen,and installing the MWR mesh filter many are using. That way I know for sure it's clean and not restricting power.

I'm also goin to ask Ducati to authorize my dealer to reset my ECU to stock settings & if they can erase the learned settings too,re
-dyno,then reinstall upmap and dyno again. My dealer said "there are no updates when they searched global,and no codes" so I'm stumped.

Oh boy. First I did an exhaustive write up on the fuel pump. Pulling the pump, modifying the pump, breaking a spare pump to show the internals. Search function people. The pump has an initial micron screen. It is removable. There is a non removable canister paper filter in the pump body. If the micron screen is not compromised then your paper filter is most likely good. I do not run the paper filters in my pumps. I have a tool I made that pulls it out. I just run the sock and a removable in line screen. If you think you have a bad/clogged pump, a simple fuel pressure test will confirm that. If you think you have compromised injectors, you can make a simple battery powered device that will hold the injector open, you can then check the spray pattern or just take them to a competent repair shop and they have a Bosch test box to look at them. You have TPS, MAP, etc all interrelated in there as well. The fact that your shop was not well versed on the pump mechanics says, find a shop that is not staffed with new MMI recruits. This .... is not difficult folks. As far as the tuning, I'm a complete ..... there and I leave that to someone here who isn't. Got a plane to catch.

Here ya go.