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Not necessarily my friend.

I think it has more to do with engine capacity.

All things considered, in the tight stuff a 600 or 750 will theoretically out handle and carry more speed through a corner than a bigger capacity/heavier bike.
It's usually in the longer straights that a bigger capacity bike will show any real advantage.

I honestly believe that I personally could ride an 899 quicker in nearly all circumstances than the 1199.


Whats weird is my 1199 made me fatser in the tight stuff then my 848, quite a bit faster.

the torque lets me have more manageable power, and the larger rear tire more stability.


I always thought this 1199 would have way more power then it does, not disappointed though ;)
 
Bingo..Thats why I love the 1199 and paid the "significantly more money". No liter bike doesn't come close in the corners and Ive tested them all except the MV.

too bad the races have straights in them and the 1199 doesnt come close to winning hahahaha
 
Jeeze Mark, for .... sake will ya stop worryin' :rolleyes:, unbunch your panties and go for a blast, you watch to much TV :D.

flipper i live in new york city. its very very windy here and very cold. my bike is away for the winter :( all i have is my motogp subscription and this forum to entertain me. this is because come june i am off warranty. so thats means pony up for the extended warranty or pony up big time for all the service i will be needing.
 
the only reason why i posted this mark the mac is because whenever someone brings up how bad ducati is doing in world superbike or motogp they say hey superstock is closest to our bikes and ducati is doing well there.

as someone said the ducati came in second.

as someone else once said second is the first loser.

No offense, but if you think the bike finishing second is ...., you're pretty brilliant. That's sarcasm...

Not sure why you posted this other than trying to provoke an argument. So, I will bite. The Pani does well in Superstock series around the world that it competes. Even wins. In the series you are discussing, it did really good.

The MotoGP bike, WSBK and World Superstock bikes are all very different. The thing people need to think about isn't whether the bikes are all the same and that because of those thoughts, they all suck.

The bike is amazing. When you look at "what it does" vs. the others, it does everything they do. Your comment. Not sure where that was said but if it was stated by a top magazine and a test, that's great! But, if it does everything they do, the cost is based on the components and how it is put together.

What the comic books tend to not ever see and understand because they get a media packet and puke back up the same info that the OEMs give them, they do not understand what micro polishing rods means. They don't catch the DLC coated wrist pins. They don't understand that the Sachs forks on the BMW are super thin and the rear passenger peg arms are painted with a thin element that rubs off quickly.

Yes, the BMW costs less. But it is made to be less money. It is eveident if you look at the components. The HP4 gets a little better, but still has the numerous different sized hex bolts and .... coatings.

The point is that when you buy something that costs a little more than something else that is similar, chances are that there is a reason. The name on the tank can be easily given the reason by those less educated. But if you look closely and educate yourself, you will see that the processes, the elements, the components and how they are assembled can all mean a difference in prices.
 
This is for all my German friends and BMW lovers.
BMW stands for Bayrischer Mist Wagen which translates to Bavarian Manure Cart. :D
 
Yes, the BMW costs less. But it is made to be less money. It is eveident if you look at the components. The HP4 gets a little better, but still has the numerous different sized hex bolts and .... coatings.

Do you have an HP4? Frankly I think my HP4 Comp looks like it costs more than what I paid for it. Its a stunning motorcycle.
 
HP4 is quicker hands down. Walks away from the pani on a straight.

You do understand that the world isn't straight. If I could teach my mom to keep a bike up and down, she could twist the throttle and ride straight...

The HP4 is a great looking bike. Seen it in detail and even the Competition version which is even sweeter. Nice on the eyes for sure. But so is the 1199R. And, if you have ridden either in race trim, you would understand when I say that the Pani is a better bike overall in my mind due to several factors. First is the handling. Even after setting the BMW up better as it was setup to handle like a dump truck. Even after that, the Pani is still more razor like. I can make adjustments mid turn easily vs the BMW. The BMW is fast. VERY fast. Not as fast as the ZX10s I have ridden, but very close. And yes, the Pani suffers a bit from about mid straight to the top.

But, the ability to carve through turns and especially transitionals, allows it to get out front and stay there. I can click off faster laps on a more consistent basis. That being said, a faster rider on a BMW will wax me. But that's true with even a 600 so... It's all relative.

I think the BMW is a great bike. I do think it is built a little more cheaply. But, my opinion. I base my opinion on components, how things are assembled, how they are clean or just seemingly stuck somewhere. Stuff like that. But I've been around so many different brands of bikes and raced several different brands as well and I try to be unbiased.

But, I also race a Pani and my feelings towards that bike are what they are. But I have ridden at the track several bikes and can compare. I've also not just ridden them once and made a decision, but spent a day trying to find a solid setup. My friend's ZX10 racebike was the last one I did this with and we got to a point that I think I might have been able to run race pace laps even at the track day.

Anyways, all good. Nobody is saying BMW is ..... I am just saying that if you look at the results, Ducati has nothing to be ashamed of. And for all that evaluate the results as to who has the best bike? I think that's silly. Yes, place thought as to how they perform in the hands of professionals, but go to the local tracks and see what everyone is riding and racing and tell me what you find? There are next to ZERO BMWs racing here in the States. There are more Panigales at the club level and actually doing very well, I might add... There are more Suzukis and Kawasakis than anything. That means you should go buy one of those!:rolleyes:
 
HP4 is quicker hands down. Walks away from the pani on a straight.

The BMW Stock to Stock will will be faster in the 1/4 mile, the Pani will be faster to top end then the rev limiter will kick in (due to the gentlemen's agreement) then BMW will the walk it the Base or S down.

The R is faster than the BMW HP4 period hands down to top end (because the R ECU is unrestricted) the BMW will not walk it down at top end. BMW is faster at 1/4 mile only.

These are not drag bikes but if you want a fast bike that goes straight get a ZX-14. then you can claim you have the fastest bike.
 
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flipper i live in new york city. its very very windy here and very cold. my bike is away for the winter :( all i have is my motogp subscription and this forum to entertain me. this is because come june i am off warranty. so thats means pony up for the extended warranty or pony up big time for all the service i will be needing.

Tell me about it Mark, I'm just about in the same boat, I have a full Termi system sitting beside me here and .... weather outside :( , last race of the season tomorrow.....Winter blues, comin' on like a train. Short days, long nights.
We should fly south for the winter :D
 
The BMW Stock to Stock will will be faster in the 1/4 mile, the Pani will be faster to top end then the rev limiter will kick in (due to the gentlemen's agreement) then BMW will the walk it the Base or S down.

The R is faster than the BMW HP4 period hands down to top end (because the R ECU is unrestricted) the BMW will not walk it down at top end. BMW is faster at 1/4 mile only.

These are not drag bikes but if you want a fast bike that goes straight get a ZX-14. then you can claim you have the fastest bike.

Beg to argue that its only quicker in the 1/4. Considering that I have both the BMW pulls harder imo. As for the R I cannot comment as I do not have one or have not had a chance to compare or ride one.
 
You do understand that the world isn't straight. If I could teach my mom to keep a bike up and down, she could twist the throttle and ride straight...

The HP4 is a great looking bike. Seen it in detail and even the Competition version which is even sweeter. Nice on the eyes for sure. But so is the 1199R. And, if you have ridden either in race trim, you would understand when I say that the Pani is a better bike overall in my mind due to several factors. First is the handling. Even after setting the BMW up better as it was setup to handle like a dump truck. Even after that, the Pani is still more razor like. I can make adjustments mid turn easily vs the BMW. The BMW is fast. VERY fast. Not as fast as the ZX10s I have ridden, but very close. And yes, the Pani suffers a bit from about mid straight to the top.

But, the ability to carve through turns and especially transitionals, allows it to get out front and stay there. I can click off faster laps on a more consistent basis. That being said, a faster rider on a BMW will wax me. But that's true with even a 600 so... It's all relative.

I think the BMW is a great bike. I do think it is built a little more cheaply. But, my opinion. I base my opinion on components, how things are assembled, how they are clean or just seemingly stuck somewhere. Stuff like that. But I've been around so many different brands of bikes and raced several different brands as well and I try to be unbiased.

But, I also race a Pani and my feelings towards that bike are what they are. But I have ridden at the track several bikes and can compare. I've also not just ridden them once and made a decision, but spent a day trying to find a solid setup. My friend's ZX10 racebike was the last one I did this with and we got to a point that I think I might have been able to run race pace laps even at the track day.

Anyways, all good. Nobody is saying BMW is ..... I am just saying that if you look at the results, Ducati has nothing to be ashamed of. And for all that evaluate the results as to who has the best bike? I think that's silly. Yes, place thought as to how they perform in the hands of professionals, but go to the local tracks and see what everyone is riding and racing and tell me what you find? There are next to ZERO BMWs racing here in the States. There are more Panigales at the club level and actually doing very well, I might add... There are more Suzukis and Kawasakis than anything. That means you should go buy one of those!:rolleyes:

Agreed all relative. You may be quicker on the duc but I am for sure quicker on the HP4. Then again maybe your a better rider than I. Who's to say :D. I'm delegating my 1199 to track only duty in the next coming year. I do find it more rewarding of a motorcycle to ride, more rider engagement and a higher sense of accomplishment when clicking off a nice time. BMW feels like a GTR very easy to go fast, not a bad thing though.

Have you ridden an HP4? Or are you taking about setting up a S1KRR? I mean I wouldn't even bring race bikes into this discussion. Of course a well sorted racebike is going to be razor sharp on the track.

Also nowhere did I say ducati does have anything to be ashamed of other than like of Quality Control. There is a reason I have both bikes and not just one or the other. Don't think I want a ZX-10 there buddy, if I did it would be in my garage
 
Beg to argue that its only quicker in the 1/4. Considering that I have both the BMW pulls harder imo. As for the R I cannot comment as I do not have one or have not had a chance to compare or ride one.

I ride and race the HP4 every weekend I can say the that the Pani pulls to top end faster (the Pani has the 41t) then the rev limiter kicks in and I walk the Pani down with the HP 4. When I race my friend with the R the HP4 can't do it. When we race at the track the Pani has faster lap times at least for me. I'm very familiar riding the HP4 and comfortable with it but my lap times on the track is faster on the Pani because of the light weight and handling. By no means I'm dissing the HP4 it's a great bike but like I said if I want to race in a straight I'll choose the ZX14 period. If they can shed a few more pounds off the HP4 it will be the best bike ever made in terms of performance but to do that the HP4 would cost more than the R.
 
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