Termi Performance Increase

FrostyFire said:

A friend of mine works in accessories at a Ducati dealer, I just called him. It comes with the ECU.

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True for the 1198, for sure. However, all the literature for the 1199 exhaust state that it comes with a "key Up Map containing a specific mapping".

This is a direct translation for the Italian "Chave Up Map con mappatura specifica".

This is down to profit. Add $20 per an ECU to provide an interface (maybe usb) and software to upload new mapping. Include a thumb drive with a new map with the exhaust, add $10. Subtract the price of a new full ECU, minus $300 (maybe even more for the Panigale ECU). They've increased profit by at least $270.

I suspect it will be a USB thumb drive with proprietary driver and encoding.

DRSapp said:

True for the 1198, for sure. However, all the literature for the 1199 exhaust state that it comes with a "key Up Map containing a specific mapping".

This is a direct translation for the Italian "Chave Up Map con mappatura specifica".

This is down to profit. Add $20 per an ECU to provide an interface (maybe usb) and software to upload new mapping. Include a thumb drive with a new map with the exhaust, add $10. Subtract the price of a new full ECU, minus $300 (maybe even more for the Panigale ECU). They've increased profit by at least $270.

I suspect it will be a USB thumb drive with proprietary driver and encoding.

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Could very well be. That makes a lot more sense logistically anyway.

So if I understand what is being said the Manifold pipe being sold as an option for the Tricolore does not add much? Seems like a boat load of money for a 2kg weight savings. I have found nothing that shows any performance improvements for the Tricolore.

tstephenson said:

So if I understand what is being said the Manifold pipe being sold as an option for the Tricolore does not add much? Seems like a boat load of money for a 2kg weight savings. I have found nothing that shows any performance improvements for the Tricolore.

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They won't show it on paper, but there will be a slight increase. It includes the Termi slip ons.

It's not a different ECU, just different maps - one for the slip on and another for the full system - and the map will be downloaded by the dealer.

duckyduc said:

my dealer would offer the slip on for $1,700, and another $120 to have it installed, looks like its a good price, i will wait until i can hear the stock bike and one with slip on to determine if i want one ( largely due to the noise level, as i dont want to piss off my neighbor too much)

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Is your neighbor going to be riding with you, or are you going to leave the bike running in front of his place?

tstephenson said:

So if I understand what is being said the Manifold pipe being sold as an option for the Tricolore does not add much? Seems like a boat load of money for a 2kg weight savings. I have found nothing that shows any performance improvements for the Tricolore.

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As speculated eailer, with the map loads slipons should add ~ 3 to 5 HP and the full system should add ~ 7 to 10 HP to the top end at the crank.

The Tricolore as delivered from the factory with the stock end cans is the same engine spec as the standard and S' models. However, on the Tri, if you install the included slipon end cans and map, you should ~ 3 to 5 HP gain.

DRSapp said:

True for the 1198, for sure. However, all the literature for the 1199 exhaust state that it comes with a "key Up Map containing a specific mapping".

This is a direct translation for the Italian "Chave Up Map con mappatura specifica".

This is down to profit. Add $20 per an ECU to provide an interface (maybe usb) and software to upload new mapping. Include a thumb drive with a new map with the exhaust, add $10. Subtract the price of a new full ECU, minus $300 (maybe even more for the Panigale ECU). They've increased profit by at least $270.

I suspect it will be a USB thumb drive with proprietary driver and encoding.

Click to expand...

That's what I interpreted from the description also.

Think it will be a service only process, as any failure in the map upload would pretty much render the bike un-startable, without a more expensive failover type solution

mandrew32183 said:

Is your neighbor going to be riding with you, or are you going to leave the bike running in front of his place?

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i live close by the City, so houses are next to each other, and i go to work at 6.30am, firing it up and let it idle on the front yard could become a declaration of war. i used to live next to a guy who has a Screaming Eagle Harley who come home at 2am every night, didnt like that much...
one of my neighbor is pretty hot, so if she want a ride, she is more than wellcome anytime lol

Copy all Sir. Yeah I was just hecklin. My wife can't wait to ride on the Tri, but I think she is going to have to just ride on the MTS, because she crushed what I wish i could call my manhood into the tank of the 848! Cheers!

Does anyone know why the Termi-manifold does not come in full Ti?

MOTODOC

motodoc said:

Does anyone know why the Termi-manifold does not come in full Ti?

MOTODOC

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Cost is the biggest factor. With the Ducati factory deal, Termi can already charge the same price for its SS system as Akrapovic does for a full Ti system. As well, Termi have factory exclusivity working with ducati during development stages, so they are the first to market, where the likes of Akrapovic have to wait till they get a production bike to start their development.

So in the end, as a Termi system is an official Ducati accessory and as they have initial exclusivity, they haven't been forced to upgrade their production line to manufacture Ti headers. As Ti is more expensive and harder to work with, it is a substantial cost to do so, which over time would have to be passed on to the like of you and I for them to retain their profit margines.

I could invision Termi changing ~40% more for a full Ti system, which would affect sales, in a negative way for Termi. As it is now, most of us can justify the premium for a Termi SS system as it is a "plug and play" official accessory with a key map uplode to adjust the tuning for the open exhaust. Though a Ti Akrapovic system would cost about the same, you still have to factor in retuning costs.

On the 1198s, to get the fuel mixtures right, this meant going with a after market ECU, ala Nemesis, or getting a Ducati Performance ECU and a dynojet kit. Not cheap either way. I myself ended up doing the latter, found a DP reflash ECU and a Dinojet, for which I ended up with a slightly better bike and sexy Ti exhaust, though it was anything but a plug an play system.

With previous models, Termi would include a new ECU with their systems. However, the Panigale is different as they now only include a "key up map" probably on something like a USB drive. As so, I doubt it will take long for second hand and reflash copies of these hit the streets. This being the case, if I was the head architect at Akrapovic, instead of searching for that extra 2 or 3 HP by optimising the design, I would closely copy the overall characteristics of the Termi system and incorporate them into an Akrapovic design. By doing this, it would allow us to go with the Akrapovic system and only require a "key up map" to get the fuel mixture within tolerance. Hmmm..

Sorry.. Kind of rambled on for a bit.

tstephenson said:

So if I understand what is being said the Manifold pipe being sold as an option for the Tricolore does not add much? Seems like a boat load of money for a 2kg weight savings. I have found nothing that shows any performance improvements for the Tricolore.

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As opposed to spending a boat load of money for a paint job?

Sorry, I couldn't help it...

In Basem Wasef's review ( 2012 Ducati 1199 Panigale Motorcycle Review ) he wrote the following:

"Another session on a "Performance" equipped bike with Termignoni pipes revealed more about the standard "S" model than it did this souped up, go-fast parts bin bike: its sharper howl, meatier midrange, and more willing wheelies make the standard bike seem potent, but more modulated and less wild."

Confirmation that like the 1198, the 1199's mid range is stifled by the restrictive stock system.

Yes it is in ECU. Just need the unlock USB key