the death of the panigale?

love2ride said:

I hope you are wrong. I hope VR can take his 10th title become the GOAT and silence all the haters.

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VR is already the GOAT... Just not on a Ducati......

on GP : MM is VR's ticket to his nr10... if just by denying JL the top spots... and if he clinches his 10, he sure will have deserved it.... MM has all the time in the world to be 2BOAT or even GOAT...

to the Pani: the 2017 already exists.... and we may get a big surprise... apparantly marketing is having its say ..as usual , they want to keep the SSA and a Twin... lets see who will win ... Corse or Sales ...

Te Pani died when the ...... up in 2012 and 2013 by simply doing no development whatsover... it is just when GIGI came along that things moved and when KWAK's and APE ILLEGAL machinery was banned to the new rules that Ducati was able to catch up.... This said, Corse is sufffering from the dual line up ( GP and WSBK) so has to spread its talent too thin... not so for KWAK who has been putting all it has on the WSBK campaign... those bikes are the result of 5 to 6 year fully focussed development... and good bikes can attract the best talent to shine... Sykes showing top consistency at the top and now REA showing how good he really is...

as to the engine configuration : Twins lost out when electronics made 4IL behave like twins.... making drive no longer an issue.... and the disadvantage of the SSA is getting worse when connected to the engine... as they can't get any flex in it.... reducing damping under lean....

as to latest developments : the latest (high up- run through both pots) AKRA is all bout engine break control.... so don't hold your breath to buy one.... as there will be no upmaps available without some expensive MM stuff....

What does Corse want Kope, V4 and conventional swing arm?

Notice cut weld in s/arm extension, room for exhaust / better FT RR weight distribution or both ?

Exhaust 2-1 @ rear of LH can, out through front then U bend into front of RH can, read somewhere they system has flapper valve or valves.






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Good stuff Kope'. It will be interesting to see the results. I had an idea that some sort of subframe for the swingarm may be a compromise. Since it's currently bolted to the engine, they can't really play with the flex much at the pivot without re-designing the cases.

If they want additional flex they could make the the airbox / head support tubular steel or
Hydaformed / pressed aluminum alloy as opposed to rigid die cast

sean999r said:

If they want additional flex they could make the the airbox / head support tubular steel or
Hydaformed / pressed aluminum alloy as opposed to rigid die cast

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Yeah, which is what they did with the GP bikes, changed the flex of the sub-frame up front. I was speaking of the swingarm attachment point specifically though. They are currently stuck there. I would guess that makes the rest of the SSSA that much harder to engineer since the characteristics of the mounting point are fixed. Which would result in compromises in some areas. Likely while under lean as Kope mentioned. I'm just guessing and haven't had any coffee yet today though. Clearly it's not the end of the world since they are still winning races. It's just a matter of whether you take the path of least resistance or not.

I was always curious as to the flex characteristics of the magnesium airbox setup on the SL vs the other models, as well as the carbon offerings that are floating around out there.

shakazulu12 said:

Yeah, which is what they did with the GP bikes, changed the flex of the sub-frame up front. I was speaking of the swingarm attachment point specifically though. They are currently stuck there. I would guess that makes the rest of the SSSA that much harder to engineer since the characteristics of the mounting point are fixed. Which would result in compromises in some areas. Likely while under lean as Kope mentioned. I'm just guessing and haven't had any coffee yet today though. Clearly it's not the end of the world since they are still winning races. It's just a matter of whether you take the path of least resistance or not.

I was always curious as to the flex characteristics of the magnesium airbox setup on the SL vs the other models, as well as the carbon offerings that are floating around out there.

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Magnesium is has spring like quality in comparison to Aluminium, but not like alloy steel. Issue with mag' is that it corrosion cracks no problem in racing but an issue for street.

The eccentric adjustment by nature will not be as rigid as a fixed assembly, sculoping of the S/arm castings will also aid in flex, however probably harder to achieve the required results would take a lot of FEA to determine.

We all have to wait and see what transpires.

Too bad nobody ever laid hands on the Pierobon setup. Kope, you out there?

sean999r said:

If they want additional flex they could make the the airbox / head support tubular steel or
Hydaformed / pressed aluminum alloy as opposed to rigid die cast

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the whole idea behind the airbox/head support was to make it out of carbon fiber, where you can REALLY control exactly how it flexes, how much, and in which directions. And it still didn't work, because you really need the bike to feel like it's flexing across it's entire length, like a ski, when you're in a full lean. Masao Furusawa talked about this as a core concept behind the Yamaha M1.

Incidentally, while Rossi was struggling with the Desmosedici, Furusawa was invited to Italy by Ducati and some initial talks were held regarding taking him on as a consultant. He gets back to Japan, and even though he's retired from Yamaha, they call him up and basically tell him not to even think about working with Ducati, or be ostracized. That's too bad, because that could have gotten very, very interesting...

What's Kope's connection with the development of the Panigale on a WSBK level as I am interested .

Kope is very good friends with Steve Moore of Moto Rapido. They lead the Ducati effort in BSB, I assume that where he gets his information from. He probably knows other people as well.

My understanding was the Uruba WSBK team was owned by one guy and is a seperate identity to the GP effort . Seems to be a lot different to the Japanese factory teams .i guess this was the reason for my question.