Three tests, three verdicts go against 1199

BellissiMoto said:

Funny, if Ducati wanted a bike to lose motorcycle tests to all the other manufacturers, they could have just re-released the 999 series.

Hell, it's still a better bike than the Panigale in many ways.


O-well, maybe they'll reward us next time with a bike that doesn't have so many counterproductive gimmicks (I'm looking at you - fly by wire throttle system!) and give us another ridiculously raw beast like the 1198 to try and master. I swear, riding those 1098R's, and 1198's are like trying to ride a pissed off bull at a rodeo, sooo much more fun than the stock Panigale, which reminds me more of a young kitten.

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....that should rattle a few cages.......

BellissiMoto said:

I swear, riding those 1098R's, and 1198's are like trying to ride a pissed off bull at a rodeo, sooo much more fun than the stock Panigale, which reminds me more of a young kitten.

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To date the 1098R is the most fun I have had on a Superbike.

The 1098R has power everywhere except at redline opposite to the 1199. The power and ride ability is in the enormous flat torque curve.

To me, it is like riding an Olympic stallion through a show jumping course. The only to way to ride the 1098R fast is to ride with light hands, I never grip and only push and that is when the 1098R rides like a dream. Said another way, if grip tightly the bike/horse will buck you.

Here in the USA, the recent magazine verdicts of the 1199R vs. HP4 vs. other superbikes are very similar to the ones you cite.

What I find interesting is lap times. In the most recent Motorcyclist Superbike Shootout, the Aprilia RSV4 Factory APRC ABS (what a ridiculous mouthful of a name) pulled the fastest lap time, followed by the 1199R less than .02 second behind. The HP4 was third, another half second or so behind IIRC. The track they tested at is notable for its lack of long straights and has many transitions and off-camber corners.

I've read similar results in other 2013 shootouts with the RSV4 and HP4 swapping for fastest lap time. Of course different tracks play to different bikes' strengths but the Pani has rarely pulled the fastest lap time in all the head-to-head comparisons I've read. For a bike that makes ~20 rwhp less and weighing 34 pounds heavier (measured), I must say I am impressed with the RSV4. It makes me want to ride one.

And I'm being honest here, I do wish the Pani would win more shootouts. I consider it a part of pride of ownership if my bike has been proven by different sets of reviewers to be the top of the performance heap of performance machines. I already enjoy bragging about the rwhp (which is very close on actual dyno runs I've witnessed to S1KRR's), superior torque, the lowest weight, etc. At the end of the day, it doesn't change how much I enjoy riding my Pani compared to any of my previous bikes, it would just be icing on the cake.

I agree with their assessment. The Ape is very much like the Honda CBR easy to ride. Even though it lacks power and speed, it gives you confidence so your lap times are much faster. The Ducati is the closest bike to a WSBK superbike a very demanding bike that is not for your average street rider. Its kind of like riding the Desmodeci ..Very demanding and difficult to ride. The 1199's torque comes on so strong when you twist the throttle around a turn, it make you think twice about how much you need to give it and the bike is so light that you dive into corners so fast most will tend to oversteer it and these will definitely will slow you up but those are the signs of a WSBK/MotoGP bike and if you are not a professional it will make your lap times slower. Not very many people can ride something so close to a WSBK bike like the Panigale.

Where as the Ape and BMW is so smooth and predictable its easy to ride but if you think their WSBK bikes ride anywhere near their street production version think again. Ducati has one thought and its Race and the street version is an after thought. My 30 years of riding Japanese Super/sports bikes its refreshing to ride something so different when i look at my other bike i go ugh and take the Pani out. As we all know like the review said, it like walking a Tiger it can maul you but I wouldnt trade it in for anything else.

BlueBear said:

thanx for your post.

i to myself follow these reviews to see how the bigger RRR brother holds up.

to me these reviews are good but are also wrong.

2 reviews i seen both RRRR dont have there full termi exhaust on.
while the HP4 gets its full akra.

i believe that the hp4 will be a great street machine and track.
but these are not the reason why we buy ducati.
ducati never won the RWHP.
its emotion and feeling.

anyhow doesnt matter i wouldnt trade my S for a hp4

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stop making excuses for the panigale. its clearly not the best bike but we all love it, so does it matter what the magazines say? Full termis will make no difference. there is no real weight savings and full termi has a bigger dip in mid range it will only effect high end. Also from the videos i have watched the R comes in third cause of price. I quote the R doesnt do anything better than the hp4 or ape but costs significantly more than both. Thats why it comes in third.

Class of 2013 Shootout! Panigale R vs HP4 vs F4RR vs RSV4 vs ZX-10R vs RC8R - On Two Wheels Ep 35 - YouTube


here you go watch the verdict

jjsC6 said:

All the bikes are so good that most of the differences are just nit picking. He'll, look at the fact that the R1 has won championships the last few years. The mags don't even test that bike any more and it finishes last every time they do. But it shows that they all can be set up properly.

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r1 dont you think that has something a little to do with josh hayes?

....there is no doubt, they are all awesome motorcycles, that we are lucky enough to be able to walk into the dealership to buy....bikes of this caliber were simply never available to the general public for decades......now...walk in, ride out

-- be a brand loyalist if you want to.....i'll be loyal to riding, and enjoy which ever one i chose to select for the given moment/season/year - they are all good/great/excellent

-- at the moment, the 1199 is the best ducati i've had the pleasure of owning, riding "caring for"

This debate will soon be moot.

In 2014, Honda is going to release a V4 1000cc similar to their MotoGp engine with 3D traction control and claimed Torque over 80 and HP over 200. That will be the bike to beat.

It is time Ducati got back to work and redesigned their MotoGp V4 so they can begin to win races again and give us the Superbike we all long for.

....yada/yada/yada.......it's still a honda......

(sounds like a mighty fast one though!)

RD16RR said:

....yada/yada/yada.......it's still a honda......

(sounds like a mighty fast one though!)

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hmmm if i am correct honda once built the best sports car at the time (NSX) does pretty well in indy car and MM is leading motogp. not a bad resume

Tricolore said:

This debate will soon be moot.

In 2014, Honda is going to release a V4 1000cc similar to their MotoGp engine with 3D traction control and claimed Torque over 80 and HP over 200. That will be the bike to beat.

It is time Ducati got back to work and redesigned their MotoGp V4 so they can begin to win races again and give us the Superbike we all long for.

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anywhere i can read about this?

If Honda comes out with an "RC" version of what Tricolore describes, that might be enough for me to put the Panigale out to pasture. Even if you're Ducati loyalists, tell me that the RC30 doesn't pull at the hearstrings. Honda's product line is certainly not lust-inspiring, but they do have the company and engineering resources bigger than all the competition combined.

If it's more of an RC-51, then I'll pass. But a real return to the RC30/RC45 homologation special (which is where SBK is returning to), then it will be something stunning indeed.

mark419ny said:

hmmm if i am correct honda once built the best sports car at the time (NSX) does pretty well in indy car and MM is leading motogp. not a bad resume

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Plus F1 experience for those that care

Still find them to be very boring and unattractive products though...

Hope their new V4 looks better than the current CBR or S1kR...

/shrug

Not the least bit interested in a comparo. I bought my Pani because I've ridden/raced enough Ducs to know what I like in a sportbike. The Pani fits exactly what I want.
Whether someone else (individual or bike mag) thinks that XXX is better than a Pani is simply irrelevant. Brand xxx isn't a Ducati.
When I decide that I want a sportbike other than a Ducati to ride, I'll go read an assessment of brand XXX.

mark419ny said:

anywhere i can read about this?

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Honda RC213 V4 Street Bike to Cost $100,000+

Ask & ye shall receive

Im sure it will follow the Ducati production lines... RS R S base...

100gs ill stick with the pani and the hp4 i have on the way and pocket the difference thank you very much

mark419ny said:

r1 dont you think that has something a little to do with josh hayes?

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I cannot imagine any rider being good enough to overcome a 30-40hp deficit, which is what the stock R1 gives up to a stock S1000rr. I know the bikes are not at all stock, but the point being that the basic platforms all are capable of being winners.

BTW, I am undefeated on the streets where I ride my bike. I have never raced anyone on the streets which is why I'm undefeated, but that's the whole point. I don't race anyone.

Charliem90 said:

/shrug

Not the least bit interested in a comparo. I bought my Pani because I've ridden/raced enough Ducs to know what I like in a sportbike. The Pani fits exactly what I want.
Whether someone else (individual or bike mag) thinks that XXX is better than a Pani is simply irrelevant. Brand xxx isn't a Ducati.
When I decide that I want a sportbike other than a Ducati to ride, I'll go read an assessment of brand XXX.

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-- on this note from Charliem90....this thread should be closed

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Best ever!