Truth about tyres and traction control

thanks Jarrel...
that is the story..

here is the Superstock BBS ecu for the Pirelli slicks. it arrived today

@kope999R - What is the BBS Superstock ECU? Was this designed for any 1199 to plug into the bike and you can run different tires?

I would like to run Dunlop NTEC 125/80(f) 195/65(r) 17" slicks or the new Pirelli 120/70, 200/60.

roadracerx said:

@kope999R - What is the BBS Superstock ECU? Was this designed for any 1199 to plug into the bike and you can run different tires?

I would like to run Dunlop NTEC 125/80(f) 195/65(r) 17" slicks or the new Pirelli 120/70, 200/60.

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Yes - but only available for like 3 tire compounds. Good luck getting it though - not the easiest to get. First you're going to have to find a Ducati Corse dealer and then have them order the part.

I tried to get the unit, not possible.....

To compensate for the difference in tyre size, I got different triggerwheel made. Works fine

@BowHunter, trigger wheel? Who makes these? What tires are you using?

@kope999R, how much are these ECUs? How is this different than the superstock ecu.

@Roadracerx: I have a engineer on my race buddy list - who vulenteered to design and run a prototype set with 49 and 50 slots (OEM is 48 slots)

He has a small batch done theese days for those of you on this forum who asked for a set. He is asking 200 EUR/set + shipment - should any one be interested in a 2. batch.

I ´m using Dunlop KR 106 120/17-18 and KR 108 195/65-17 with 50 slots trigger wheels and DTC in level 5 witch works very fine for me

@BowHunter, are you using this bike for racing or track days? Also, do you have a picture of this trigger wheel?

Apparently there are several boxes and they can be obtained from a Ducati CORSE dealer, they are made for Dunlop, Michelin and Pirelli, for example the Dunlop DTC box is P/N: 38510221A

Does anyone know which Dunlop tires the Dunlop DTC box P/N: 38510221A include? Cost? Buy from ?

revvedup said:

Does anyone know which Dunlop tires the Dunlop DTC box P/N: 38510221A include? Cost? Buy from ?

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The Dunlop DTC unit is for Dunlop slicks. Dunlop only make UK and USA slicks. The US KR448 and KR449 are almost identical, within 1 mm, in size and shape to the UK KR106 and 108, it's only the compounds which change from time to time. You should be good either way. You can contact Ducshop to order, they have a Corse account and they are very helpful and know what they are doing. I am not sure what your price will be but you can expect to pay about $1200-1300 I would imagine.

@Roadracerx: The bike is used for racing in the Nordic BOTT series.

@BowHunter, looks legit. Thanks for posting. I'll let you know if I need one. So you ARE running Dunlop NTecs? Also, since you are running at the national level, like myself, what is your experience with the bike? It looks like you have a base model. Did you replace the fork internals? Any problems with the bike weaving under hard acceleration when using the slicks?

Great Thread - Thanks for the info

@Roadracerx: Yes - I'm running Dunlops NTEC - UK models KR106/108
Suspension is OEM forktubes with Ohlins NIC30 cartridge kit and Ohlins TTX rear shock with internals DLC coated.

I had some Weaving in the beginning - but after fitment of the TTX it got bettere - not gone though.
I have some front end chatter mid corner, moved to a hardere front tyre compound - with little or no effekt.
I just changed the rebound shimstack in the fork yesterday - in order to have better control of the front.

I also found that the bike has some sensitivity to input - the weaving can be almost eliminated by loading your weight from the butt to the footpegs.

Nest step regarding the front end chatter is to reduce wheel lenght - moving the chain/excentric closer to the swingarm pivot. At the moment - it is allmost max lenght - gearing is 14/38.

Any thought on front end chatter - please chim in

BowHunter said:

@Roadracerx: Yes - I'm running Dunlops NTEC - UK models KR106/108
Suspension is OEM forktubes with Ohlins NIC30 cartridge kit and Ohlins TTX rear shock with internals DLC coated.

I had some Weaving in the beginning - but after fitment of the TTX it got bettere - not gone though.
I have some front end chatter mid corner, moved to a hardere front tyre compound - with little or no effekt.
I just changed the rebound shimstack in the fork yesterday - in order to have better control of the front.

I also found that the bike has some sensitivity to input - the weaving can be almost eliminated by loading your weight from the butt to the footpegs.

Nest step regarding the front end chatter is to reduce wheel lenght - moving the chain/excentric closer to the swingarm pivot. At the moment - it is allmost max lenght - gearing is 14/38.

Any thought on front end chatter - please chim in

Click to expand...

Hi BowHunter,

Have had my Panigale back a few weeks now, and whilst not ridden on track with it yet, I am experiencing the same things as you still despite loads of setup work on mine.

Basically, the bike is never quite stable, and it's twitchy the entire time. Not terribly, but it works well when hard on the gas, or hard on the brakes, and not really that well on part throttle. This seems to destabilise the bike. I think that this is a combination of the electronics (engine control seems crude/rough to me), the chassis and the weight of the bike (which amplifies the instability). I also get chatter on the front when on the brakes.

I have gone low with mine, changed wheelbase, revalved, resprung and altered geometry a lot. Switched F-P, changed tyres (I also run Dunlop NTecs on track and 200/55 211GP on the road - same ride height if not profile!) and experimented with everything I can find.

I have it about as good as I can get it now, but it's still incredibly sensitive to bar input, or throttle input (despite lousy RBW throttle) and you have to weight the pegs to calm the bike down. I find it hard to ride this bike quickly. I can ride both my others faster and easier on all surfaces (road and track).

I wish someone would come up with more answers/data. I have spent a long time on mine and can only get it to "OK" but am not entirely happy with the outcome. It changes direction like a housefly though - which seems to be the exchange for the permanent "stealth plane" instability!

I've got an S model and out of the box and really only ride it hard on the track. It felt very nervous mid corner. Corner entry and exit were good but I needed to do something about mid corner.

I lowered rear ride height by decreasing the shock length to 306mm and went down on the spring rate in the rear to get the rear shock working better. That helped with the feeling mid corner. I had a difficult time at first getting preload set right on the front but now I'm running 40mm of sag in the front and the forks are working better.

I was having a problem with too much dive on the front suspension under heavy braking. I added 10cc of oil to the front forks help slow it down. I did not want to crank up the compression as that just made it harsh everywhere else on the track.

Throttle in 195hi was twitchy when I was rolling on the gas. I switched the throttle out of 195hi to 195lo and the throttle performance smoothed out. I'd like to get it back to 195hi but I think there's a glitch in that throttle map, its just not smooth when you first pick up the throttle. Not the kind of thing I want to fight while I've got the bike cranked over on its side.

My latest change was to go to the 15/41 gearing. I'm hitting the track at Roebling this weekend. will be interesting to see how it does.

Veck,

This sounds very much the same as my experience. I also added 20cc fork oil to stop the bottoming. So I am running 35mm sag, with the forks also dropped 5mm down, and a softer setup than I would usually run on the other bikes. I tried softer springs to make it easier to load the front, but that didn't work really. So went back to a 10.0. I have the compression fairly high already to keep the bike stable, and it is already slightly harsh so agree with your comment. The electronic damping on these bikes is mainly only slow speed comp anyway, as it's a simple needle valve moved by a stepper. It does little to high speed damping.

Throttle pickup with the new map from Ducati is much improved over the old one, which was dreadful, but it's still not that consistent. I too would much prefer to be back on 195Hi, but you still have snatchy throttle response with that, and so certainly on the street, it isn't rideable like that. And first touch of the throttle, when you have it banked over, as you say, isn't the time for the bike to start getting all excited.

I haven't tried the gearing change yet, as not sure that is going to make that much difference to these issues. I might try dropping the rear a little more, or changing the shock length. That's what one of the race teams here has done, as they had the shock all the way to the bottom if it's adjustment range, so shortened the actual shock body to a shorter shock.

See how you get on this week. I think I would be able to ride mine better on track than road, but it isn't quite right. I am riding around the issues rather than the bike flattering the rider that's for sure. In a straight line it's quick as you like though......

Sorry guys,

the BBX Ecu costs about 350 euro's. . i now have them set to 16,5" inch wheels and tires..

grtz

Hi ChamMTB and Veck

You are spot on with the chatter mid corner.

I don't really have any other issues with the bike, as long I remember to load the footpegs....

Do any of you use or have a hight meassure tool ala the one Kyle Racing have ?
It could be beneficial for all of us to share experience and numbers regarding changes in the chassis. I'm ordering a tool to get consistent measurements - any suggestione apart from Kyle ?

I was at my race pusher the other day - where I found a new Dunlop KR106 profile - new is 125/65-17. I will test this end next week at Anderstorp Raceway in Sweden - feedback to follow.

Just got back from 2 days at the track. Gearing change was a big help, it pulls better from lower RPM and it feels like I'm staying out of parts of the throttle map that are twitchy.

The harder and faster I rode the bike the better it felt. I need to add another 10cc of oil to the front forks. Needs more support at the bottom of the stroke. Roebling only has 1 hard braking zone and I was coming down from 170 to about 100 for the corner entry. I used all of the available travel and the rear was starting to dance around.

Running the rear shock shorter and the front at stock height feels much better to me. No weaving on the straights and my drives off the corners were dead straight.

Good rear tire wear. Running the Pirelli 200/55 and I like the feel.