V4 owners - 15w50 oil reports with testing - Motul 300v / Redline Power Sports / Motul 7100 - Part 1

Let me start off by saying i have OCD and i love motor oil to a degree that others love heroin. Now continue reading.

- 3x samples of Motul 300v 15w50 , Redline 15w50 powersports , Motul 7100 15w50 , all VIRGIN oils tested with Speediagnostix

- 1x test of USED 300v w 1000 miles tested with Speediagnostix.

- oil sampled from new motor is the reason for high wear metals shown , from 1000 miles on odometer to 1990 miles . note there was 1 oz of zddp additive put in this oil which bumped zinc levels 200ppm and Phos levels 300 ppm , could this skew the results maybe? maybe not. currently fresh 300v in the engine with no additives & will sample a 2nd run next season along with others oils in line to be sampled as well to test used data.


The Excel spread sheet is done with a oil bearing tester with equal parameters for each test.

- 300V with 1000 miles on the used sample shows that the CST 100C degraded down to a 40w oil pretty fast ( 17.5 down to 15.9 ) , The oil showed it lives up to the hype on the bearing stress tests proving to be the best of the 3 when it comes to wear scars ... BUT that hype is SHORT LIVED. Its Race oil , period. It is top of the line stuff no question about it , but for anyone using this past 800-1000 miles , you are only hurting your motor. It has a specific # of heat cycles before the oil becomes thinner than what the engine calls for and looses its protection factor form wear and heat. Plenty of ZDDP for anti wear and very high Calcium for detergents , high oxidation in virgin form shows ester is active for cold start protection . Best oil period for this V4 platform but at the cost of around 600-800 miles MAXIMUM. It is pure RACE OIL , and its the best race oil there is for this platform protection wise . So get ready for VERY frequent changes if you love this oil and want to continue using it.

- Redline test shows its smack in middle of the pack , right behind 300v on the bearing test scars. The CST 100c shows to be of true 50w oil @ 18.9 , i sense the highest protection and longevity without any breakdown with this oil based on the bearing scars and being the coolest oil during those bearing tests. The oil report showing MASSIVE ZDDP values for anti wear and high Calcium values for detergents . It does have a bit of Moly in it so in my next testing this oil will be going in my bike to see if clutch slip is present. Most suitable for the street and comfort of knowing it will hold its viscosity over time. The high oxidation levels in virgin form show its high in ESTERs which is great for prolonged sitting of the motor as the ESTERS cling to metals , reducing wear on startup when the engines been cold for months. Hands down the BEST DAILY STREET OIL out of the 3 oils. Engine will run cooler with this oil based on the bearing testing temps and sustain highest protection over longer periods of time when compared to 300v. ( USED OIL DATA TO BE DETERMINED )

- 7100 test shows that it started of at CST 100c of 17.1 , lower than the 300v but not by much still light for a 50w oil. future test will show its longevity. Its average in all areas of additives , ZDDP / Calcium are lower than the other 2 , almost as if this was part of the EPA / API regulated oil to fit their emissions requirement . The lower zddp rating means higher wear over time and with heat as the bearing test shows it had the biggest scar of the 3 when heated but on startup it looked CST 40c it looked pretty decent. , however that being said it does have more Magnesium which is also a detergent. This oil did decently good & showed to have the highest temp recorded on bearing testing but it didn't skew the results letting me know it holds up to heat with no negative results . This oil is good street oil and a substitute for the OEM shell stuff , more so in line with API / EPA standards. ( USED OIL DATA TO BE DETERMINED )

Ive also posted this on reddit & someone on reddit asked why i didn't test the Shell oil , ill copy that answer here for anyone that wanted to know.


""All data you see here is my own data , yes. I never ran the Shell simply because i've seen the oil reports from others. The Shell Zinc ppm is only 920 and Phos ppm is 780 . way to low for high heat protection and anti wear. EPA and API laws are simply for emissions only & cannot run oils with higher than those PPMs. This goes for car oils as well. I can easily do a report on the shell but I've seen them and figured i will never use that oil anyway since i know its not a group 4 or 5 base or mPAO / Ester to begin with.....as for these emissions laws , I don't think my bikes going to cook the atmosphere by removing the cats and using high ZDDP oil , but ill be sure ...... oils wont cook my motor lol.""

long story short the additive package in the regular Shell advanced did not meet standards that i follow when it comes to oil and its protective properties. ZDDP creates a super strong glass like film on all metal surfaces with heat and pressure. Moly works along side ZDDP as well reducing friction and wear.

I can almost guarantee the performance oil Shell / Ducati sells for $40 a L , the one that gains 4hp or whatever for the V4R that they say shouldn't be used with wet clutches. Yeah i bet that contains very high ZDDP and extremely high Moly for Anti wear and Anti friction. Hense not being able to use a wet clutch due to moly , freeing up HP from no clutch bath and less friction of moving parts also due to moly. If anyone has that oil and has a report please post here i would be curious to see it.

Thats my bet without even testing it. Ester based , high zddp + high moly. very similar to Redline and less moly on the 300v .



From Ducati website -

""The formulation based on a special selection of base oils and additives aimed at reducing friction guarantees a 10% reduction of the latter compared to the original equipment Shell Advance 15W-50 lubricant, resulting in increased maximum power. In the case of the Panigale V4 R, powered by the Desmosedici Stradale R 2023, this advantage can be up to 3.5 hp, a value that rises to 4.5 hp in correspondence with the limiter.

These targets were achieved thanks to a special formulation of additives, developed by Shell in its collaboration with Ducati Corse, belonging to the friction modifier and viscosity modifier categories. The friction modifier used in Ducati Corse Performance Oil powered by Shell Advance creates an ultra-thin film on the mechanical surfaces, reducing the effect of imperfections and therefore friction. This additive makes using Ducati Corse Performance Oil powered by Shell Advance possible only on engines with dry clutches.

The viscosity modifier used is a special polymer, frequently deployed in racing applications, which tends to reduce viscosity under conditions of high sliding velocities, thus decreasing friction and increasing performance. At the same time the viscosity modifier supports the oil to maintain a good degree of protection, particularly in the most critical conditions of lubrication, such as when starting. These results have been obtained thanks to a rigorous development and test process at the Shell research and development facilities , which are verified and applied in world championship racing competitions.""

Interesting results. I've always been a proponent of frequent oil changes when tracking/racing but this confirms the reason behind that especially with 300V.

A couple questions... Was the 600 mi break-in performed to the manual specs and with the oil change then? So 300V was put in on the 3rd oil fill? If this is the case, those wear metals (copper and aluminum) being that high after breaking in is concerning. You'd think after 2 oil changes and 1000 mi that the engine would be broken in and these wear metals would be much lower.

SuperDomestique said:

Interesting results. I've always been a proponent of frequent oil changes when tracking/racing but this confirms the reason behind that especially with 300V.

A couple questions... Was the 600 mi break-in performed to the manual specs and with the oil change then? So 300V was put in on the 3rd oil fill? If this is the case, those wear metals (copper and aluminum) being that high after breaking in is concerning. You'd think after 2 oil changes and 1000 mi that the engine would be broken in and these wear metals would be much lower.

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So I had that thought as well . I’ve done the first oil change at 150 miles, dumped the factory stuff and filled with 300v , then changed again at 600 miles also with 300v (first service) , then again at 1000 miles also filled with the green stuff .

Each time there was less and less debris on the plug , letting me know the break in process was happening and I was effectively dumping out the left over debris. Virtually nothing on the plug from the change of 600 to 1000 miles . You would say yeah that’s because of the frequent changes but I noticed more amount of debris on the plug at the first 150 miles and then even less on the plug the next change from 150 to 600 and so on .

Reason I do most of my break in changes so frequently is to dump the motor of all debris as fast as possible keeping the break in period as clean as possible from scoring w/the debris that comes from early break in.

With that being said , good for pointing out the 1000-1990 mile change shown on the report having high metals . Well what happened was my stupid self drained the oil and forgot to sample from the drain plug while my sample containers were up stairs in the house . After drip drip drip , My only option was to then take the sample from the oil filter housing which holds the most debris as this test we are reading is counting everything on the outside of the filter element falling into suspension , which is not the way one should test oil .

However the drain plug at this last interval of 1000-1990 miles that you see the high wear metals on the test, the drain plug was spotless. For 990 miles it was cleaner than the first 3 changes .

Even though aluminum and copper aren’t magnetic, the engine for sure seemed cleaner to me especially the look of the oil . The high copper I would assume is some clutch material & residual from the left over oil from the 600-1000 mile change. And I pray isn’t bearing material as you would typically see lead before copper in the test results when it comes to rod bearings . At least I assume these bearings are made that way as most are.

I currently have fresh 300v in the bike again as my 4th oil change done at 1990 miles so this next test at 2500 miles will let me know the correct details of wear metals as I’ll be collecting from the drain and not the filter housing like an ..... lol. Hope that clarifies it. You can see the notes they put in the bottom section of the report as well mentioned the same .

This is the last round of 300v for me and Redline will be going in next to run for the next 1k miles and test results .

I know few BMW S and M1000RR engine failing with 300V. Its for really short milage and for track mainly but i dont risk it.

Regards!

Seems like your opinion of 7100 is that it’s High-Tier “meh”

Would you run redline over 7100 at this point?

Incredible post thank you. In the background I have been acquiring Blackstone laboratory results on oil and was gonna post the results in the spring. I currently have 800 miles on my 300 V and was going to run 200 more and get samples tested.

Interesting. Because I’ve had two Panigale motors pop and I consistently changed the 300 V for track day weekends. And for street use I ran 2500 miles. My suspicions are that that was way too long at sustained high RPM driving and contributed to my bearing failure.

Jag

TakoDivah said:

Seems like your opinion of 7100 is that it’s High-Tier “meh”

Would you run redline over 7100 at this point?

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Yes exactly , the 7100 is good don’t get me wrong , however the redline is better in all testing.

SirJAG said:

Incredible post thank you. In the background I have been acquiring Blackstone laboratory results on oil and was gonna post the results in the spring. I currently have 800 miles on my 300 V and was going to run 200 more and get samples tested.

Interesting. Because I’ve had two Panigale motors pop and I consistently changed the 300 V for track day weekends. And for street use I ran 2500 miles. My suspicions are that that was way too long at sustained high RPM driving and contributed to my bearing failure.

Jag

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Most likely what had happened. The 300v behaved incredibly well on the bearing test. But the CST 100 on the before and after reports show it sheers at an intense rate.

Race oil , one track day , dump it . Thats what it does best.

I ordered a test kit from Speeddiagnostix. I have four quarts of unopened Shell Advance Ducati 15W-50 in the basement. I'll send them a new sample and next oil change re-fill the bike with the Advance stuff and get it tested after 1,000 miles. The only caveat to that is I have 300V in the bike now, and I think I'd need to do two fills then send a sample in to get the best results.

NYCV4S said:

So I had that thought as well . I’ve done the first oil change at 150 miles, dumped the factory stuff and filled with 300v , then changed again at 600 miles also with 300v (first service) , then again at 1000 miles also filled with the green stuff .

Each time there was less and less debris on the plug , letting me know the break in process was happening and I was effectively dumping out the left over debris. Virtually nothing on the plug from the change of 600 to 1000 miles . You would say yeah that’s because of the frequent changes but I noticed more amount of debris on the plug at the first 150 miles and then even less on the plug the next change from 150 to 600 and so on .

Reason I do most of my break in changes so frequently is to dump the motor of all debris as fast as possible keeping the break in period as clean as possible from scoring w/the debris that comes from early break in.

With that being said , good for pointing out the 1000-1990 mile change shown on the report having high metals . Well what happened was my stupid self drained the oil and forgot to sample from the drain plug while my sample containers were up stairs in the house . After drip drip drip , My only option was to then take the sample from the oil filter housing which holds the most debris as this test we are reading is counting everything on the outside of the filter element falling into suspension , which is not the way one should test oil .

However the drain plug at this last interval of 1000-1990 miles that you see the high wear metals on the test, the drain plug was spotless. For 990 miles it was cleaner than the first 3 changes .

Even though aluminum and copper aren’t magnetic, the engine for sure seemed cleaner to me especially the look of the oil . The high copper I would assume is some clutch material & residual from the left over oil from the 600-1000 mile change. And I pray isn’t bearing material as you would typically see lead before copper in the test results when it comes to rod bearings . At least I assume these bearings are made that way as most are.

I currently have fresh 300v in the bike again as my 4th oil change done at 1990 miles so this next test at 2500 miles will let me know the correct details of wear metals as I’ll be collecting from the drain and not the filter housing like an ..... lol. Hope that clarifies it. You can see the notes they put in the bottom section of the report as well mentioned the same .

This is the last round of 300v for me and Redline will be going in next to run for the next 1k miles and test results .

Click to expand...

Knowing this info, my thought would be that maybe you switched to synthetic too soon and your engine isn’t fully broken in yet. I’m not sure what oil is in the bike on delivery. On the auto side, you break a fresh engine in with non-syn oil to bed the rings and set the bearings.

bp_SFV4 said:

I ordered a test kit from Speeddiagnostix. I have four quarts of unopened Shell Advance Ducati 15W-50 in the basement. I'll send them a new sample and next oil change re-fill the bike with the Advance stuff and get it tested after 1,000 miles. The only caveat to that is I have 300V in the bike now, and I think I'd need to do two fills then send a sample in to get the best results.

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Correct , about 2-3 changes and youll be flushed of all the 300v.

@VYRUS come take a peek at the data here, your contributions have been good on oil .... in the past...what are your thoughts on redline?

NYCV4S said:

So I had that thought as well . I’ve done the first oil change at 150 miles, dumped the factory stuff and filled with 300v , then changed again at 600 miles also with 300v (first service) , then again at 1000 miles also filled with the green stuff .

Each time there was less and less debris on the plug , letting me know the break in process was happening and I was effectively dumping out the left over debris. Virtually nothing on the plug from the change of 600 to 1000 miles . You would say yeah that’s because of the frequent changes but I noticed more amount of debris on the plug at the first 150 miles and then even less on the plug the next change from 150 to 600 and so on .

Reason I do most of my break in changes so frequently is to dump the motor of all debris as fast as possible keeping the break in period as clean as possible from scoring w/the debris that comes from early break in.

With that being said , good for pointing out the 1000-1990 mile change shown on the report having high metals . Well what happened was my stupid self drained the oil and forgot to sample from the drain plug while my sample containers were up stairs in the house . After drip drip drip , My only option was to then take the sample from the oil filter housing which holds the most debris as this test we are reading is counting everything on the outside of the filter element falling into suspension , which is not the way one should test oil .

However the drain plug at this last interval of 1000-1990 miles that you see the high wear metals on the test, the drain plug was spotless. For 990 miles it was cleaner than the first 3 changes .

Even though aluminum and copper aren’t magnetic, the engine for sure seemed cleaner to me especially the look of the oil . The high copper I would assume is some clutch material & residual from the left over oil from the 600-1000 mile change. And I pray isn’t bearing material as you would typically see lead before copper in the test results when it comes to rod bearings . At least I assume these bearings are made that way as most are.

I currently have fresh 300v in the bike again as my 4th oil change done at 1990 miles so this next test at 2500 miles will let me know the correct details of wear metals as I’ll be collecting from the drain and not the filter housing like an ..... lol. Hope that clarifies it. You can see the notes they put in the bottom section of the report as well mentioned the same .

This is the last round of 300v for me and Redline will be going in next to run for the next 1k miles and test results .

Click to expand...

I always thought you were supposed to break the engine in with a semi synthetic so that the seals seat better

I can’t imagine with modern oils and modern engine manufacturing that it matters. The terms synthetic and semi-synthetic are so nebulous it’s hard to make decisions simply from that information.

bp_SFV4 said:

I can’t imagine with modern oils and modern engine manufacturing that it matters. The terms synthetic and semi-synthetic are so nebulous it’s hard to make decisions simply from that information.

Click to expand...

True break in Is typically done in the factory on these motors as they are ran and tested before leaving the factory to dealers. Also , the rings will seat within the first 100 miles. After that you are good to go.

Ok cause what’s weird is redline specifically says do not use its oil for break in. So you’re either saying this doesn’t matter or that break in is achieved at 100 miles?

TakoDivah said:

Ok cause what’s weird is redline specifically says do not use its oil for break in. So you’re either saying this doesn’t matter or that break in is achieved at 100 miles?

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I never used redline for break in , i kept the factory stuff in for the first 160 miles then dumped for 300v. Its most likely the High ZDDP in the oil along with anti friction properties of redline that aren't good for initial break in, you typically want low ZDDP on engine break in. but I believe 100-200 miles is enough to seat the piston rings. Anything after that will be the final stages of seating of all other metal parts but what is done within those 100-200 miles matters most IMO . I don't think its anything major to worry about.

NYCV4S said:

True break in Is typically done in the factory on these motors as they are ran and tested before leaving the factory to dealers. Also , the rings will seat within the first 100 miles. After that you are good to go.

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This isn't what you data is showing...

SuperDomestique said:

This isn't what you data is showing...

Click to expand...

How so ?