V4 owners - 15w50 oil reports with testing - Motul 300v / Redline Power Sports / Motul 7100 - Part 1

NYCV4S said:

How so ?

Click to expand...

If you're saying the majority of the ring break in is at 100 mi, why are you still seeing so much alu in your oil 1900 later?

The comment "typical for new engine break-in oil" at the end of your results says it all. By 2k mi, the motor should be broken in. Also, I don't think it matters where you collect the oil from even if you dumped it from the filter housing. That oil and particulate were in your engine at one time. What's trapped in the filter stays in the filter.

SuperDomestique said:

If you're saying the majority of the ring break in is at 100 mi, why are you still seeing so much alu in your oil 1900 later?

Click to expand...

Two reasons.

This oil we are reading is from mile 1000 to 1900. Still considered break in , yes. But these metals were seeing has nothing to do with the rings not being seated as i very well believe that's done very early on , especially in regards to this motor .

The high metals are combined with 2 factors. one being residual oil from the change of 600-1000 miles could very well still be there as these bikes like to store oil upon each change , and final most important factor of why is that i collected this oil from the oil filter housing , my own error by allowing the sump to drain completely before remembering to collect it for sample. Anything residual from the previous mile 600-1000 oil the filter has caught , along with new debris from 1000-1900 and i collected all of that and had it sampled as i had no choice. Seeing aluminum doesn't mean rings aren't seated, it just means the engines breaking in.

found this on the web as well .

""Every Ducati engine is run-in for ten minutes or more on the dyno using a prescribed rpm and temperature sequence. The piston rings seal is mostly complete after this initial test run. The follow-up part of the break-in that you read in your Owners Manual has little to do with piston ring sealing. It’s meant to accommodate the time it takes for normal wear to occur to thousands of mating parts.

The initial break-in period is actually the final finishing step in manufacturing an engine. At the factory, Ducati hones the cylinder walls to a fine finish, grinds cams to accurate, smooth profiles, and makes connecting rod journals to high standards of roundness and accuracy. But, metal surfaces are still microscopically rough, consisting of tiny peaks and valleys. When you start a new engine, these surfaces must slide over each other and wherever the peaks stick up higher than the local oil film thickness, metal hits metal, welds momentarily from the intense local pressure, and then tears away. The oil flushes away these bits of metal, and the oil filter removes them from circulation.

This process works quickly at first, then more slowly as break-in proceeds. Once the high spots are knocked or pushed down, the roughness of the surfaces no longer sticks above the oil films. Piston rings have filed themselves into a fine fit to their cylinders. Bearings spin without metal-to-metal contact, on full oil films.""

NYCV4S said:

""Every Ducati engine is run-in for ten minutes or more on the dyno using a prescribed rpm and temperature sequence. The piston rings seal is mostly complete after this initial test run. The follow-up part of the break-in that you read in your Owners Manual has little to do with piston ring sealing. It’s meant to accommodate the time it takes for normal wear to occur to thousands of mating parts.

Click to expand...

Honda and Yamaha do this as well on their superbikes! I believe ring seating is def done in less than 100mi.

SuperDomestique said:

If you're saying the majority of the ring break in is at 100 mi, why are you still seeing so much alu in your oil 1900 later?

The comment "typical for new engine break-in oil" at the end of your results says it all. By 2k mi, the motor should be broken in. Also, I don't think it matters where you collect the oil from even if you dumped it from the filter housing. That oil and particulate were in your engine at one time. What's trapped in the filter stays in the filter.

Click to expand...

I agree , engine break in takes 2k miles and there is no question about it. But piston rings to be seated are done very very early on & High ZDDP oil shouldn't be used on break in to make sure this effect takes place .

It also says at the bottom of the report "The cold sample from the filter is a likely reason for high copper and aluminum"

Part of me wants to keep testing from the filter housing as i believed that's a good point you made that its coming from the engine anyway , i figured this as well as i was waiting on the sample , but i also very well think what i tested above was some oil particulate from early break in along with the current tested oil combined and wont tell me whats currently going on with this current oil change id be testing. Ether way i dont see any harm.

My next report will show more details. I want to rid the 300v anyway so the sample will be from mile 1900 - 2200 some time in March or April of 2025 i would assume ( NYC here so its cold to ride)

Will be less mileage than my last test , but will show a correct report for the metals since ill drain from the plug, I'm also going to have a dyno run done too so even though its less miles it will have some high rpm runs to it.

NYCV4S said:

Two reasons.

This oil we are reading is from mile 1000 to 1900. Still considered break in , yes. But these metals were seeing has nothing to do with the rings not being seated as i very well believe that's done very early on , especially in regards to this motor .

The high metals are combined with 2 factors. one being residual oil from the change of 600-1000 miles could very well still be there as these bikes like to store oil upon each change , and final most important factor of why is that i collected this oil from the oil filter housing , my own error by allowing the sump to drain completely before remembering to collect it for sample. Anything residual from the previous mile 600-1000 oil the filter has caught , along with new debris from 1000-1900 and i collected all of that and had it sampled as i had no choice. Seeing aluminum doesn't mean rings aren't seated, it just means the engines breaking in.

found this on the web as well .

""Every Ducati engine is run-in for ten minutes or more on the dyno using a prescribed rpm and temperature sequence. The piston rings seal is mostly complete after this initial test run. The follow-up part of the break-in that you read in your Owners Manual has little to do with piston ring sealing. It’s meant to accommodate the time it takes for normal wear to occur to thousands of mating parts.

The initial break-in period is actually the final finishing step in manufacturing an engine. At the factory, Ducati hones the cylinder walls to a fine finish, grinds cams to accurate, smooth profiles, and makes connecting rod journals to high standards of roundness and accuracy. But, metal surfaces are still microscopically rough, consisting of tiny peaks and valleys. When you start a new engine, these surfaces must slide over each other and wherever the peaks stick up higher than the local oil film thickness, metal hits metal, welds momentarily from the intense local pressure, and then tears away. The oil flushes away these bits of metal, and the oil filter removes them from circulation.

This process works quickly at first, then more slowly as break-in proceeds. Once the high spots are knocked or pushed down, the roughness of the surfaces no longer sticks above the oil films. Piston rings have filed themselves into a fine fit to their cylinders. Bearings spin without metal-to-metal contact, on full oil films.""

Click to expand...

Shouldn't residual oil from the previous changes be run through the oil filter with those metal particles being trapped by the filter? Therefore, I'm skeptical that residual oil is contributing to the high copper and alu (I'm not too worried about the copper since the lead is almost nonexistent). But since your alu levels are still high, that means your cylinders are still being broken in or god forbid your pistons are dragging. Will be interesting to see the trend.

But what I'm most concerned about is seeing that you're not riding the bike enough and need to get more miles on the bike more quickly haha!

SuperDomestique said:

Shouldn't residual oil from the previous changes be run through the oil filter with those metal particles being trapped by the filter? Therefore, I'm skeptical that residual oil is contributing to the high copper and alu (I'm not too worried about the copper since the lead is almost nonexistent). But since your alu levels are still high, that means your cylinders are still being broken in or god forbid your pistons are dragging. Will be interesting to see the trend.

But what I'm most concerned about is seeing that you're not riding the bike enough and need to get more miles on the bike more quickly haha!

Click to expand...

Yeah I'm curious as well but i have a feeling ill be okay on this next report. The filter does trap the bigger particles , but my idea of it is that the smaller stuff is still in suspension of the dirty unfiltered oil around the filter , before the filter gets to filter it. If that makes sense , not everything gets trapped so residual will be in the oils since a total oil change is impossible , think small stuff under 10 microns that can get past the filter. ( Speediagnostix test as low as 5 microns of metals)

I was shaking my head the whole time , waiting a while for the small sample bottle to fill up saying this isn't going to come back good lol. Just think that oil was just dragging along the filter & slowly dripping into the sample container taking everything with that it could.

As for riding , Yes! I'm dying to ride more. Between my 3 bikes its hard to get millage on them all throughtout the short N.E seasons. I picked this bike up Oct 31st 2023 brand new and rode as much as i could with the time i have. I also had 3 kids within 30 months, since the first in 2022 , so my hands are full at the moment lol.

NYCV4S said:

not everything gets trapped so residual will be in the oils since a total oil change is impossible , think small stuff under 10 microns that can get past the filter

Click to expand...

Very good point.

You do have your hands full!

Great post!