V4 owners - 15w50 oil reports with testing - Motul 300v / Redline Power Sports / Motul 7100 - Part 1

BP PanigaleV4S said:

Out of curiosity, what do you use in your car? @VYRUS same question. I have a F-150 and am right at 3K since my last oil change.

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In the Summer, I use Maxima Extra 10W/60 in my gas engine car's & trucks. I live in Northern California where the Summer ambient temperatures are frequently over 100F. In the Winter, I use Maxima Extra 5W/40. I change the oil every 3000 miles or before the start of the Summer or Winter. If I'm towing my motorcycle trailer through the mountains in the Summer, I use Red Line 20W/60 motorcycle oil. In California we have a major stretch of highway called the Grapevine. It goes over the mountains north of LA. It's about 40 miles. In August, it's not uncommon for the ambient temperature to be 115F at the northern base of the Grapevine. It's a steep climb up and over the mountains & into LA. People who've never driven these types of roads can't believe anyone would use 20W/60 oil in an engine. On the other hand, I can't believe anyone would use 0W/16 in a turbocharged truck towing up the Grapevine in August. I always use motorcycle oil in my gas engine cars & trucks. Motorcycle oil is generally higher quality than automotive oils. Turbocharged engines are VERY hard on their oil. If you have a Diesel pick-up, their oils are a totally different subject & much more complicated. However, there's one motorcycle oil that also works great in a turbocharged diesel with a DPF. Red Line 10W/50 Power Sport is also rated for diesel engines. If you think motorcycle owners stress over their oil, Diesel owners are way worse. Lots of motorcycle owner's also own Sprinter BlueTec diesels. I don't want to get into the diesel oil discussion, it will never end. But, Red Line 10W/50 Power Sport is the very best oil you can put in a diesel. This does not apply to any other motorcycle oil or other Red Line Power Sport oils. Red Line 10W/50 Power Sports is the only oil you can use in everything except a two stroke engine. It has the JASO approval for a wet clutch, & the API "CF" approval for a diesel.
"hurc" asked about Break-in oil. NEVER use 300V or any other synthetic oil to break-in a new engine. Break-in oils are Mineral based oil with high levels of zinc. If you have a dry clutch, you have lots of choices. Wet clutches need oil with the JASO approval. You also want to get the original factory oil out of a new engine ASAP. Driven BR40 10W/40 Break-in oil is an excellent Break-in oil for a wet or dry clutch. Change the oil & filter 2 or 3 times within the first 500 miles. Then use whichever oil you've decided to use for your type of riding.

Thank you @VYRUS for sharing your knowledge! How northern CA? Redding area? I’m in Southern Oregon, similar summer conditions

The v4R I’m getting is just under 1000 miles and I will change the oil as soon as I get it. Do you recommend running the Driven 10w40 break in oil with this mileage? From comments in this thread it sounds like some consider the break in period to be up to the first 2500 miles?

If 1000 miles is past break in, would it be appropriate to run the Maxima Extra 10w60 now? Thank you!

hurc said:

Thank you @VYRUS for sharing your knowledge! How northern CA? Redding area? I’m in Southern Oregon, similar summer conditions

The v4R I’m getting is just under 1000 miles and I will change the oil as soon as I get it. Do you recommend running the Driven 10w40 break in oil with this mileage? From comments in this thread it sounds like some consider the break in period to be up to the first 2500 miles?

If 1000 miles is past break in, would it be appropriate to run the Maxima Extra 10w60 now? Thank you!

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The break-in on your engine is pretty much over. The most important part of the break-in is within the first 50 miles. By 500 miles it’s 98% finished. You could change the oil now and run the Driven BR40 as a sort of flush for 50 to 100 miles, but that’s just to give you some piece of mind. Then go to the Maxima. The best thing you can do now is to order a super magnet from eBay and stick it onto your oil filter. Switch the magnet to each new oil filter. The magnet will trap the tiny iron particles the filter can’t stop. When you look at a used oil report, “iron” is the most important number. It tells you if something really bad is happening. Like the camshaft wear problems many companies are experiencing. The first signs of camshaft wear will show up in the “iron” number. A good engine will show “iron” at between 3 and 5. If the cams are in trouble, you’ll see “iron” at 15 and higher. I’ve seen oil test with “iron” in the 90s and they still seem to run okay. But the end is coming.
If you’re really interested in what’s going on in your engine, a super magnet on the oil filter will trap the “iron” where it was attached on the filter. You can buy metal oil filter cutting tools for $30 on Amazon. Cut your old filter open and see how much metal dust is stuck where the magnet was attached. Don’t use a hacksaw, you’ll have metal everywhere. If your engine has a paper oil filter insert, you can still open it up and run the magnet around the filter and see what it picks up.
When these same camshaft, timing chain, and sprocket failures first appeared in car engines, manufacturers blamed the same stuff motorcycle manufacturers are blaming now. The failures were actually caused by the EPA emission oil regulations; i.e. lower zinc / ZDDP in automotive oils. It took longer for the EPA to really regulate motorcycle engines and reduce the zinc in motorcycle oil. Now motorcycles are having the same failures car engines had in the late 90s and throughout the 2000s. Automakers still have these same failures after hardening the cams, chains and sprockets. The EPA keeps insisting on higher fuel economy, and that results in lower oil viscosity. Even though they keep making the engines more robust, the oil keeps getting worse. The EPA and the manufacturers don’t want you driving around for 10 or 12 years with outdated emissions systems. They want your car off the road and in the junkyard. What better way to do that, than with inferior lubrication.
KTM Is in financial trouble, in large part due to the repetitional damage caused by oil related engine failures. KTM and other manufacturers know these failures are caused by the EPA oil. They are so hand tied by the EPA regulations that they’re now close to bankruptcy.

Very nice report.
Thanks
Just out of curiosity, anybody has deeply tested the Bardhal XT4R C60 ?
I run it on the Barni V4R SBK, changing it quite often ( about every 300 km ).
So far, engine is flawless and some superficial inspection of the piston heads, cammes etc, look great.

01COCCOBET said:

Very nice report.
Thanks
Just out of curiosity, anybody has deeply tested the Bardhal XT4R C60 ?
I run it on the Barni V4R SBK, changing it quite often ( about every 300 km ).
So far, engine is flawless and some superficial inspection of the piston heads, cammes etc, look great.

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Bardahl Technical Data Sheet says:
Entirely formulated with PAO + Synthetic esters:
• The particular composition obtained from the exclusive combination of polyalphaolefins (PAO) and esters, allows the formulations to achieve superior performance in terms of resistance to thermal decay by oxidation and evaporation, fluidity at low temperatures and lubricating power.
But, Bardahl’s 10W/60 Safety Data Sheet says:

• Lubricating oils (petroleum), C20-50%, hydro treated neutral oil-base
• Distillates (petroleum), hydro treated heavy paraffinic
• Lubricating oils (petroleum), C15-30%, hydro treated neutral oil-base. (This is ordinary base motor oil that you’ll find in every one of hundreds of oils around the world. However, you may also find these same ingredients in 300V and other top tier lubricants. The difference is those top tier oils also list other exotic chemicals. If you don’t see additional chemicals, it’s just ordinary motor oil. You never see these ingredients listed in Red Line Power Sport or Maxima Extra. Motul 300V does list these ingredients, but in addition to other chemicals. This is one reason I personally don’t consider 300V in quite the same league as the Red Line or Maxima Extra.)

What Bardahl says in their advertisement, doesn’t jive with the Safety Data Sheet they’re legally required to file with OHSA. Which one of their statements do you believe?

Another example, Maxima Extra 10W/60 Safety Data Sheet says:

• Synthetic Base Oils 80-90% Proprietary
• Multifunctional Additive Mixture 10-20% Mixture
• Zinc alkyldithiophosphate <5% Proprietary
• Organosulfur-Phosphorus Compound

For what it’s worth, the Ducati 15W/50 factory oil that comes in your engine Safety Data Sheet says:

• A blend of severely hydrotreated slack wax and additives. Highly refined mineral oil. (Whenever you see “mineral oil”, that means it is NOT the ester synthetic oil like 300V, Red Line Power Sport, or Maxima Extra.)

interesting.
So you deduce that the XT4R is not ester?
This would make a big difference

01COCCOBET said:

interesting.
So you deduce that the XT4R is not ester?
This would make a big difference

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Partially ester

My blackstone results with 300v. 500miles only. Note it has sheared down to a 40 weight already. I firmly believe now that the two engines I popped were related to 2500 mile intervals using this race oil!

SirJAG said:

My blackstone results with 300v. 500miles only. Note it has sheared down to a 40 weight already. I firmly believe now that the two engines I popped were related to 2500 mile intervals using this race oil!

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Yeah i had the same results for 300v sheering down to a 40w fast , however i notice its pretty low for Zinc and Phos in this 300v sample. This wasnt the v2 version was it?

NYCV4S said:

Yeah i had the same results for 300v sheering down to a 40w fast , however i notice its pretty low for Zinc and Phos in this 300v sample. This wasnt the v2 version was it?

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No it wasn’t.

And not sure we can compare blackstone to speed one. But I’m going to assume that Blackstone is precise.

So should give me good data for a trend


I’m not gonna run 300v anymore. At this sample I went to redline. Ran another 300mi and dumped again, then refilled with more redline. Felt like I needed two flushes to get it all. The green was obviously still there.

I plan to sample the red line at Virgin, 500 then 1000 and 1500 miles street.


Jag

SirJAG said:

No it wasn’t.

And not sure we can compare blackstone to speed one. But I’m going to assume that Blackstone is precise.

So should give me good data for a trend


I’m not gonna run 300v anymore. At this sample I went to redline. Ran another 300mi and dumped again, then refilled with more redline. Felt like I needed two flushes to get it all. The green was obviously still there.

I plan to sample the red line at Virgin, 500 then 1000 and 1500 miles street.


Jag

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I have both blackstone and speediagnostics, both virgin samples tested of all 3 oils 300v , 7100 & redline . My BS shows it has lot higher zddp than what you have shown. Also the speediagnostics reports are more precise than the blackstone samples.

Blackstone can only test up to 8 micron , speediagnostics up to 5 micron.

The discrepancy in our tests proves this , also there’s a rumor that because blackstone is such a small in house shop they don’t clean their machines as throughly as the lab speediagnostics uses. F1 teams also use the same lab that speediag does . Another example is redline states it has 2000 phos / 2200 zinc on their in house reports and states the same on the website . Blackstone shows a different story . Speediagnostics was on the money with the numbers .

I’ve used blackstone for years , recently made the switch over after doing the comparisons my self.