V4 owners - 15w50 oil reports with testing - Motul 300v / Redline Power Sports / Motul 7100 - Part 1

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NYCV4S said:
Everything said here is the bible to oils . I live by EXACTLY what he is saying. Thats why i went through my testing to find out which oil can withstand the torture the Desmosedici Stradale motor puts it through.

Forget what manufactures recommend for ANY ENGINE. I've always said if its EPA rated , its not to protect your engine its to protect the "earth", and i could give a F*ck less about my engines emissions on the planet honestly. There's way bigger polluting factors to this world then a 1.1L motorcycle engine , my $ is in this machine. I want to last therefore i do not stick with their BS. ALL my fluids get changed. Transmission , differential , transfer cases even coolant to a 70/30 custom mix as ill never see below 7F temps. All this makes my engines last and run cooler and wear way less.

I also aim to up the oil weight as many times its for fuel economy, example my 21' escalade calls for water thin 0/20 oil.... when its an LS based engine and historically they always called for 5/30 or even 5/40... why did they use 0/20 ? because it gave them 2mpg on their vehicle stickers which the EPA loves & the engine hates. Look how many L87 have faulty lifters . Yes the lifter is .... but did anyone stop to think maybe thin oil heating up the parts with little to no protection had a factor in it as well?

always look for the following

- High HTHS ---this will gauge how strong the oil reacts under EXTREME HIGH TEMP & PRESSURE which is your main bearings / Piston rings

- High ZDDP ---This is your anti wear armor line of defense for metal on metal contact

- ESTER & mPAO base oils --- This is base quality of the oils , exactly as @VYRUS mentioned , coldstart protection and ease of flow.

- CST 40c ---this is how the oil viscosity reacts on a cold motor, lower # is better

- CST 100c --- this is how the oil viscosity reacts on a warmed up motor . Higher is better... most importantly how long does the oil remain at its virgin CST100 value after its had many heat cycles & used up after 1k miles , example 300v sheers this number down very very fast within 500 miles its done being a 50w.

- Calcium & Magnesium - this is what cleans your motor , your detergents. Need these in the motor to maintain cleanliness. These also battle AGAINST ZDDP which is a bad thing but also good thing because you don't want it to build up multiple layers on its own over time with nothing to battle against it IMO . Think of it as a fresh layer of ZDDP every time you change your oil since calcium and magnesium naturally degrades the ZDDP over time.

Great write up @VYRUS . More people should be aware of all of this.
Click to expand...
Also don’t use oil that’s been sitting around. It’ll degrade over time especially once it’s been hammered. Even new oil that’s not been opened will oxidize over time.

I think this is where most Ducati’s run into problems particularly when it comes to 300V, which in all fairness is a great track day oil but just needs to be changed very frequently. At least for me before reading this thread and doing a deep dive on oil? the every year or 7500 mi oil change is complete nonsense when you switch to 300V. It just degrades too quickly. And I bet most people are running 3+ trackdays on it like I and a lot of others on this forum was. 300V is probably a single trackday oil and more of a race oil because of this. Most people are thrashing their bikes on too thin oil after this first trackday.

Will send a 300V sample with a single track day on it along with a VOA to see the results (if the bike stays with me). Bike should be a good candidate as it has 5k miles and 4-5 oil changes with 300V in it so all the original Shell is gone.
 
This thread is the gospel. Thanks to all the contributing members. This should be made a sticky or something pinned to the top of the forum for everyone's eyes.

Redline for me going forward.
 
How’s this look to yall?
@BP PanigaleV4S @baggerman @VYRUS @NYCV4S


The aluminum in the oil report makes more sence. All my ducs have had this for 10k plus miles. Seems to lessen as motor breaks in…

What is concerning is the gold speckles….

This was after dumping the redline after 300mi or so (to flush out all the green motul)

Jag
 

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SirJAG said:
How’s this look to yall?
@BP PanigaleV4S @baggerman @VYRUS @NYCV4S


The aluminum in the oil report makes more sence. All my ducs have had this for 10k plus miles. Seems to lessen as motor breaks in…

What is concerning is the gold speckles….

This was after dumping the redline after 300mi or so (to flush out all the green motul)

Jag
Click to expand...
Clutch material has copper in its combination of materials . You should be concerned when you do an oil UOA and see copper and lead together in the report. That means bearings have eaten away the lead surface and is now eating the copper portion of the bearing. Engine has to come apart at first sign of this.
 
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NYCV4S said:
Clutch material has copper in its combination of materials . You should be concerned when you do an oil UOA and see copper and lead together in the report. That means bearings have eaten away the lead surface and is now eating the copper.
Click to expand...
ok so my Lead was 1, and copper 6....
so at next sample hope to see these numbers very close/no change...that would be good...if they are 3x higher...that's an oh ..... moment?

JAG
 
SuperDomestique said:
This is from the guy that runs Speed Diagnostics. Pertinent video on how oils that lose viscosity and their effects

Click to expand...

He’s great this guy. I’ve personally spoken to him over the phone a half dozen times in regards to questions . He’s very knowledgeable and has so much data gathered over the years . His father also was a pro race driver so its in the blood i guess. He also was an owner / helped create Driven racing oils . I specifically use the Driven 5w30 ls30 oil in my daily . The wear bearing test of ls30 is on my report I posted on this thread . very good stuff
 
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greetings from europe, very interesting topic for us who care about what oils we put in our motorcycles.
what about us for whom redline is not so easily accessible? according to this, if used exclusively for the road, the motul 7100 is better than the ducati shell
 
Bump636 said:
greetings from europe, very interesting topic for us who care about what oils we put in our motorcycles.
what about us for whom redline is not so easily accessible? according to this, if used exclusively for the road, the motul 7100 is better than the ducati shell
Click to expand...
Yes the 7100 is better than the shell . Change it every 1000miles , 2000 miles maximum .
 
Bump636 said:
greetings from europe, very interesting topic for us who care about what oils we put in our motorcycles.
what about us for whom redline is not so easily accessible? according to this, if used exclusively for the road, the motul 7100 is better than the ducati shell
Click to expand...
This is a great question and I've touched on it in a previous comment. Europe actually has many more high performance Ester synthetic motorcycle oils to choose from. We don't talk about them in America because they're expensive, & shipping makes them cost prohibitive. The market for them is very small. I assume you're riding in warm weather. Viscosity is important. Forget what the manufacture tells you. Up to about 28C ambient temperature, 10W/50 or 10W/60 is fine. If you ride in ambient temperatures above 29C, I would stick with 15W/50, 15W/60, 20W/50, or 20W/60. Just because the oil is expensive, doesn't mean it's what you're looking for. On the other hand, there are no cheap ester synthetic motorcycle oils. Expect to pay about 20 euros or more.
Here are a few excellent European ester synthetic motorcycle oils. They're not in any order of excellence. Wolf MOTO 4T 20W/50. Wolf also makes MOTO 4T in lower viscosities. Mannol 4-Takt Powerbike 15W-50, and Millers CFS 10W/60 NT+. Putoline offers a number of excellent ester synthetic motorcycle oils. Putoline OFF Road Ester TECH 4+ 10W/60 is perfect for fast street riding & track days. If you want a full fledge race oil like the special Ducati oil, Putoline N-TECH SPR+ 5W-50 is for professional race teams who earn their living racing motorcycles. It's expensive. Race teams don't have to be told to change the oil after every race. As expensive as this oil is, it's a bargain compared to a blown engine. There are other great European motorcycle oils. Look for "ester" in its name. Stay away from any oil that says it improves fuel economy. Avoid motorcycle oil with the API SP approval. Avoid any oil with a Flash Point of 200C. The Flash Point should be above 225C. Avoid oil with a HTHS below 3.5. You'll never see the very best oils on the manufactures "approved oil list".

Let me say a few words about Motorex. This is a popular European oil and KTM's recommended oil. I firmly believe this oil is the primary reason KTM is having camshaft failures. KTM knows how to build engines. Look at the starting line of any pro or amature motocross race. Motorex / KTM 20W/60 race oil is super expensive. But it is NOT an ester synthetic oil. Even though it doesn't have any API rating, it's actually an average API Group 3 oil. The same goes for the other Motorex oils. They're not junk, but they're nothing special. They're average oils with cool advertising & a very high price tag. Most guys would never notice a problem. I've used Motorex for years & not had a problem. But when you have an engine that's hard on the oil, Motorex can't cut it. The problem is, you don't always know you have an engine that's tough on its oil until it's too late. Since you really don't know until everyone is jumping up & down, I always assume that I'll be the last to know. Use the very best ester oil & change it way more often than the manufacture recommends. If you would like a good example of how oil companies, the EPA, & engine manufactures lie, look at what they say about ZDDP (zinc). The common myth is ZDDP is for older muscle car's with Flat-Tappet engines. The problem is, high performance motorcycle engines have flat-tappets. Look at all the KTM camshaft YouTube videos. Major automotive manufacture's have been having Balance Shaft & Timing Chain failures for decades. Mercedes & Porsche have stuffed their customers with billions of dollars in repair cost, and that's on top of what they've spent on oil related recalls. These guys love telling consumers they've solved their engine problems. Plus, modern oils are made from magic beans. ZDDP is obsolete. Trolls like me are just trying to scare you. I'm just some old fart who doesn't understand modern engine & oil design. Just pour this 0W/8 super duper oil in your engine & drive it for 20,000 miles. You'll be fine. Who are you going to believe? Some guy ranting on the internet, or the Engineer's who actually designed & built your engine? Why would the manufacture tell you to use an oil that causes the engine to fail?
 
VYRUS said:
This is a great question and I've touched on it in a previous comment. Europe actually has many more high performance Ester synthetic motorcycle oils to choose from. We don't talk about them in America because they're expensive, & shipping makes them cost prohibitive. The market for them is very small. I assume you're riding in warm weather. Viscosity is important. Forget what the manufacture tells you. Up to about 28C ambient temperature, 10W/50 or 10W/60 is fine. If you ride in ambient temperatures above 29C, I would stick with 15W/50, 15W/60, 20W/50, or 20W/60. Just because the oil is expensive, doesn't mean it's what you're looking for. On the other hand, there are no cheap ester synthetic motorcycle oils. Expect to pay about 20 euros or more.
Here are a few excellent European ester synthetic motorcycle oils. They're not in any order of excellence. Wolf MOTO 4T 20W/50. Wolf also makes MOTO 4T in lower viscosities. Mannol 4-Takt Powerbike 15W-50, and Millers CFS 10W/60 NT+. Putoline offers a number of excellent ester synthetic motorcycle oils. Putoline OFF Road Ester TECH 4+ 10W/60 is perfect for fast street riding & track days. If you want a full fledge race oil like the special Ducati oil, Putoline N-TECH SPR+ 5W-50 is for professional race teams who earn their living racing motorcycles. It's expensive. Race teams don't have to be told to change the oil after every race. As expensive as this oil is, it's a bargain compared to a blown engine. There are other great European motorcycle oils. Look for "ester" in its name. Stay away from any oil that says it improves fuel economy. Avoid motorcycle oil with the API SP approval. Avoid any oil with a Flash Point of 200C. The Flash Point should be above 225C. Avoid oil with a HTHS below 3.5. You'll never see the very best oils on the manufactures "approved oil list".

Let me say a few words about Motorex. This is a popular European oil and KTM's recommended oil. I firmly believe this oil is the primary reason KTM is having camshaft failures. KTM knows how to build engines. Look at the starting line of any pro or amature motocross race. Motorex / KTM 20W/60 race oil is super expensive. But it is NOT an ester synthetic oil. Even though it doesn't have any API rating, it's actually an average API Group 3 oil. The same goes for the other Motorex oils. They're not junk, but they're nothing special. They're average oils with cool advertising & a very high price tag. Most guys would never notice a problem. I've used Motorex for years & not had a problem. But when you have an engine that's hard on the oil, Motorex can't cut it. The problem is, you don't always know you have an engine that's tough on its oil until it's too late. Since you really don't know until everyone is jumping up & down, I always assume that I'll be the last to know. Use the very best ester oil & change it way more often than the manufacture recommends. If you would like a good example of how oil companies, the EPA, & engine manufactures lie, look at what they say about ZDDP (zinc). The common myth is ZDDP is for older muscle car's with Flat-Tappet engines. The problem is, high performance motorcycle engines have flat-tappets. Look at all the KTM camshaft YouTube videos. Major automotive manufacture's have been having Balance Shaft & Timing Chain failures for decades. Mercedes & Porsche have stuffed their customers with billions of dollars in repair cost, and that's on top of what they've spent on oil related recalls. These guys love telling consumers they've solved their engine problems. Plus, modern oils are made from magic beans. ZDDP is obsolete. Trolls like me are just trying to scare you. I'm just some old fart who doesn't understand modern engine & oil design. Just pour this 0W/8 super duper oil in your engine & drive it for 20,000 miles. You'll be fine. Who are you going to believe? Some guy ranting on the internet, or the Engineer's who actually designed & built your engine? Why would the manufacture tell you to use an oil that causes the engine to fail?
Click to expand...

VYRUS said:
This is a great question and I've touched on it in a previous comment. Europe actually has many more high performance Ester synthetic motorcycle oils to choose from. We don't talk about them in America because they're expensive, & shipping makes them cost prohibitive. The market for them is very small. I assume you're riding in warm weather. Viscosity is important. Forget what the manufacture tells you. Up to about 28C ambient temperature, 10W/50 or 10W/60 is fine. If you ride in ambient temperatures above 29C, I would stick with 15W/50, 15W/60, 20W/50, or 20W/60. Just because the oil is expensive, doesn't mean it's what you're looking for. On the other hand, there are no cheap ester synthetic motorcycle oils. Expect to pay about 20 euros or more.
Here are a few excellent European ester synthetic motorcycle oils. They're not in any order of excellence. Wolf MOTO 4T 20W/50. Wolf also makes MOTO 4T in lower viscosities. Mannol 4-Takt Powerbike 15W-50, and Millers CFS 10W/60 NT+. Putoline offers a number of excellent ester synthetic motorcycle oils. Putoline OFF Road Ester TECH 4+ 10W/60 is perfect for fast street riding & track days. If you want a full fledge race oil like the special Ducati oil, Putoline N-TECH SPR+ 5W-50 is for professional race teams who earn their living racing motorcycles. It's expensive. Race teams don't have to be told to change the oil after every race. As expensive as this oil is, it's a bargain compared to a blown engine. There are other great European motorcycle oils. Look for "ester" in its name. Stay away from any oil that says it improves fuel economy. Avoid motorcycle oil with the API SP approval. Avoid any oil with a Flash Point of 200C. The Flash Point should be above 225C. Avoid oil with a HTHS below 3.5. You'll never see the very best oils on the manufactures "approved oil list".

Let me say a few words about Motorex. This is a popular European oil and KTM's recommended oil. I firmly believe this oil is the primary reason KTM is having camshaft failures. KTM knows how to build engines. Look at the starting line of any pro or amature motocross race. Motorex / KTM 20W/60 race oil is super expensive. But it is NOT an ester synthetic oil. Even though it doesn't have any API rating, it's actually an average API Group 3 oil. The same goes for the other Motorex oils. They're not junk, but they're nothing special. They're average oils with cool advertising & a very high price tag. Most guys would never notice a problem. I've used Motorex for years & not had a problem. But when you have an engine that's hard on the oil, Motorex can't cut it. The problem is, you don't always know you have an engine that's tough on its oil until it's too late. Since you really don't know until everyone is jumping up & down, I always assume that I'll be the last to know. Use the very best ester oil & change it way more often than the manufacture recommends. If you would like a good example of how oil companies, the EPA, & engine manufactures lie, look at what they say about ZDDP (zinc). The common myth is ZDDP is for older muscle car's with Flat-Tappet engines. The problem is, high performance motorcycle engines have flat-tappets. Look at all the KTM camshaft YouTube videos. Major automotive manufacture's have been having Balance Shaft & Timing Chain failures for decades. Mercedes & Porsche have stuffed their customers with billions of dollars in repair cost, and that's on top of what they've spent on oil related recalls. These guys love telling consumers they've solved their engine problems. Plus, modern oils are made from magic beans. ZDDP is obsolete. Trolls like me are just trying to scare you. I'm just some old fart who doesn't understand modern engine & oil design. Just pour this 0W/8 super duper oil in your engine & drive it for 20,000 miles. You'll be fine. Who are you going to believe? Some guy ranting on the internet, or the Engineer's who actually designed & built your engine? Why would the manufacture tell you to use an oil that causes the engine to fail?
Click to expand...
thanks for the detailed answer, I really appreciate it. I know that there are quality oils here in Europe, but this is a very interesting topic for me because I bought a brand new motorcycle for the first time and I want to start right from the beginning from the first kilometers. the temperature where I live goes up to 38c (100F) for few weeks a year during the summer, but I would say the average when we ride most is around 25-31c (77-89f)
One of the popular oils among racers and they put it next to the Motul in terms of quality is "Fuchs Silkolene" I don't know if you are familiar with it, but I even found some specifications
 

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Bump636 said:
thanks for the detailed answer, I really appreciate it. I know that there are quality oils here in Europe, but this is a very interesting topic for me because I bought a brand new motorcycle for the first time and I want to start right from the beginning from the first kilometers. the temperature where I live goes up to 38c (100F) for few weeks a year during the summer, but I would say the average when we ride most is around 25-31c (77-89f)
One of the popular oils among racers and they put it next to the Motul in terms of quality is "Fuchs Silkolene" I don't know if you are familiar with it, but I even found some specifications
Click to expand...
This should be a decent oil, but not quite as good as some others. I don’t like it when oil companies give uninformed consumers useless information under the guise of appearing to be important. It does have some ester and they say the same things every other oil says. The Flash Point is the only useful clue, and it’s not good. The Flash Point is only normal for most average oils. Like I’ve said before, the important stuff is VI, NOACK, ZDDP / zinc, and HTHS. If the oil has exceptional numbers in those categories, they’ll shout it from the rooftops. Since they say very little and the Flash Point is mediocre, you can buy better oil for the same price.
Since the engine is new, your main concern should be putting real Break-in oil in the engine and doing the proper procedure. This has been discussed in other threads. Your engine has a cartridge oil filter. I would immediately epoxy the biggest super magnet I could onto the cover. That will pull out the iron particles smaller than 30 microns that the filter can’t stop. Order extra oil filters and change the oil and filter at 100 miles, 300 miles, and 600 miles. Don’t forget to clean the iron dust off the inside of the oil filter cover. It will look similar to the metal on the drain plug magnet. If you really want to help your engine, replace the Ducati magnetic drain plug with a higher quality more powerful magnet. If you’re really anal, you can remove the valve covers and put super magnets near the lobes of the camshafts. They make the magnets in the shape of a washer. Find a spot that doesn’t interfere with any sensor or has a clearance problem. You’ll probably need a 5mm longer bolt for a 5mm magnetic washer. You should only do this if you know what you’re doing. The biggest problem today seems to be with high camshaft wear. A magnet near the cam lobes will help keep the oil at the lobes as pure as possible. Now you’re ready to go. If you don’t know how, learn how to change your own oil and filter. The Ducati oil filter is as good as you’ll get. Never use one of those stainless steel reusable oil filters you see advertised.
 
Bump636 said:
Than you for fast reply, than its better to use 300v than 7100 and change it more often? Ive been using motul for years and never ever had problem
Click to expand...
No 300v is specifically race oil. It does an amazing job at protecting the engine but for fewer heat cycles. It sheers its viscosity very fast. 300v is for one or two track days at best. Me personally I’d run it at the track and dump it as I got home .

Stick with street oil that can withstand being sheered down. 7100 is good , however not the best .

Redline , directly from their website won’t ship internationally? Have you tried that option
 
SirJAG said:
ok so my Lead was 1, and copper 6....
so at next sample hope to see these numbers very close/no change...that would be good...if they are 3x higher...that's an oh ..... moment?

JAG
Click to expand...
I've seen the gold flake thing show up from several bikes. I don't think there is any copper in the clutch plates (not that I can see on the clutch that came with the motor I bought 14K miles). They do have some sort of gold/copper coating on the friction plates which you can see between the friction pads. Some of that may shed for a while. I'm not seeing it in my bike BTW. These will shed the edges of the various gears in the engine particularly the gearbox for probably 15K miles. I see no source of copper inside the engines except for backings of the rod and main bearings. So, i agree watch that copper number.
 

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