V4 owners - 15w50 oil reports with testing - Motul 300v / Redline Power Sports / Motul 7100 - Part 1

Ducati Forum

Help Support Ducati Forum:

This should be a decent oil, but not quite as good as some others. I don’t like it when oil companies give uninformed consumers useless information under the guise of appearing to be important. It does have some ester and they say the same things every other oil says. The Flash Point is the only useful clue, and it’s not good. The Flash Point is only normal for most average oils. Like I’ve said before, the important stuff is VI, NOACK, ZDDP / zinc, and HTHS. If the oil has exceptional numbers in those categories, they’ll shout it from the rooftops. Since they say very little and the Flash Point is mediocre, you can buy better oil for the same price.
Since the engine is new, your main concern should be putting real Break-in oil in the engine and doing the proper procedure. This has been discussed in other threads. Your engine has a cartridge oil filter. I would immediately epoxy the biggest super magnet I could onto the cover. That will pull out the iron particles smaller than 30 microns that the filter can’t stop. Order extra oil filters and change the oil and filter at 100 miles, 300 miles, and 600 miles. Don’t forget to clean the iron dust off the inside of the oil filter cover. It will look similar to the metal on the drain plug magnet. If you really want to help your engine, replace the Ducati magnetic drain plug with a higher quality more powerful magnet. If you’re really anal, you can remove the valve covers and put super magnets near the lobes of the camshafts. They make the magnets in the shape of a washer. Find a spot that doesn’t interfere with any sensor or has a clearance problem. You’ll probably need a 5mm longer bolt for a 5mm magnetic washer. You should only do this if you know what you’re doing. The biggest problem today seems to be with high camshaft wear. A magnet near the cam lobes will help keep the oil at the lobes as pure as possible. Now you’re ready to go. If you don’t know how, learn how to change your own oil and filter. The Ducati oil filter is as good as you’ll get. Never use one of those stainless steel reusable oil filters you see advertised.
I've seen two valvetrains thus far and I'm not seeing any wear really. They have hardened the rocker faces to a level that the cams must be sacrificial to the rockers in the V4's. I'd like to use alnico magnets for head bolt washers on these but since they're sintered I don't think they're up to the task. They're pumping a lot of oil into the heads and actively scavenging but I bet there's at a minimum of half a liter in each head all the time based on the change in the oil level as the heads drain down after you shut them off. I actually have hopes for the valvetrain life on these. That being said I'd be keeping the clearances within the factory assembly specs and ignoring their operating specs. My real concern on these is rod bearing related issues as the motors loosen up with age. They've revved the oil pump four times as near as i can tell.
 
I've seen the gold flake thing show up from several bikes. I don't think there is any copper in the clutch plates (not that I can see on the clutch that came with the motor I bought 14K miles). They do have some sort of gold/copper coating on the friction plates which you can see between the friction pads. Some of that may shed for a while. I'm not seeing it in my bike BTW. These will shed the edges of the various gears in the engine particularly the gearbox for probably 15K miles. I see no source of copper inside the engines except for backings of the rod and main bearings. So, i agree watch that copper number.
I be wrong. I forgot about the rod small end bushes, you'll see some copper from these as they burnish in. And maybe lead depending on the alloy. Shouldn't be much though.
 
I be wrong. I forgot about the rod small end bushes, you'll see some copper from these as they burnish in. And maybe lead depending on the alloy. Shouldn't be much though.
perhaps the 1st owner of this bike never pushed hard...only 4k miles when i purchased and the dealership had records of all the times it was in the shop...first service around 700mi, new tires at 3000mi, two oil changes by dealership....

Now that ive got it and actually pushing...perhaps why i'm seeing some ware? in any event, will sample new oil again after this weekends 300mi loop!

Jag
 
No 300v is specifically race oil. It does an amazing job at protecting the engine but for fewer heat cycles. It sheers its viscosity very fast. 300v is for one or two track days at best. Me personally I’d run it at the track and dump it as I got home .

Stick with street oil that can withstand being sheered down. 7100 is good , however not the best .

Redline , directly from their website won’t ship internationally? Have you tried that option
yes, and I was afraid you would say that because even though I won't do a lot of kilometers per year (about 2000km) there will be a lot of heating cycles. As for redline, they will not deliver it directly from the official website but I found a couple of stores in Europe that have it in stock, but the price is expected to be a bit more expensive, $31, and again, I don't know how long it stays on the shelf in the store and is it really important or am I exaggerating
Another good thing is that it's the middle of winter here and I won't be driving for at least 2 months, so I have time to wait for your new results :)
 
There are dozens of websites who specialize in super magnets of every size shape and strength. Most have useful technical information about the various types of magnets. I’ve bought some that are down right dangerous. Put your finger between them while not paying attention, and you’ll lose a chunk of skin. Once is normally adequate to maintain the proper respect.
Votex is a major supplier of high quality Neodymium drain plugs. Know your size before you order. Belmetrics.com offers the same size drain plugs, but in different configurations. Let’s say the stock drain plug is an Allen type. But a drain plug with a hex head would work better. Plus you can put a hole for safety wire through a hex head . You can also get stainless steel, aluminum, or titanium. You can find all of these variations. I’ve gotten drain plugs with the magnet counter sunk and then I stack a super strong single magnet on top of it. You don’t need to worry about it getting loose. Those 2 magnets have a death grip on each other and any tiny metallic dust to small for the filter. I also use plumber’s tape on the threads to prevent leaks. I also run a bigger NCR oil cooler on some of my bikes. They also have a small drain plug that I switch to a magnet style. Plus I always drill my drain plugs for safety wire. I know some of the readers are new to the sport. One of my small contributors is to pass on little bits of wisdom, so they don’t have to learn things the hard way. I want new riders to stick with the sport and not give up the first time they get bit. Sometimes older riders forget how long it’s taken to learn the little tricks. Like safety wire. I really believe it’s important that riders know how to work on most of their bike repairs. As we all know, motorcycles do not suffer fools for very long. I live in a major city, and there’s a fatal motorcycle accident practically every day. The Paper never gives details about the riders experience or things about the bike that may have contributed to the accident.
One thing motorcyclists need to remember when they’re working on their bike. “What happens if this thing I’m tightening comes loose and falls off?” If you want to be certain it doesn’t fall off, it needs to be safety wired. If the nut, bolt, or drain plug is not pre drilled for safety wire, you need to know how to do it. If you give your bike to a work shop or Dealer for your repairs, it’s highly unlikely they will make the effort to safety wire something. “If the factory didn’t do it, it can’t be important.” I’ll let you think about that for a bit.
Find a safety wire website and learn how to do it. If you think it’s a hassle, remind yourself about what happens if whatever you’re doing falls off. Canister and cartridge oil filters also need safety wired. K&N cartridge oil filters are pre drilled for safety wire. If your engine has a cartridge filter, the screws securing the cap need to be drilled to properly safety wire. Learn how to do it. When anything oil related works loose, the problem isn’t the engine loosing oil. The problem is oil getting on your rear tire. Forget the engine, you and your family will be royally screwed.
 
So who makes drain plugs with super strong magnets?
It may be useful to attach a neodymium magnet to the bottom edge of the valve covers on the outside. Neo magnets are strong enough for this to be effective. This location should be cool enough to use neodymium without getting close to the curie point which is like 300 F. Neo sintered magnets are coated to stop corrosion and can break down into sort of a powdered paste if the coating breaks down which is usually nickel or something similar so after attachment on the outside might be useful to paint them on the valve cover after attachment. And as Vyrus says attaching a big Neo one to the outside bottom of the V4 filter housing would be useful. I shove an Alnico one down the inside of the oil filters. Neo's pull is about 6 times as strong as Alnico, but Alnico is much less temperature sensitive.
 
There are dozens of websites who specialize in super magnets of every size shape and strength. Most have useful technical information about the various types of magnets. I’ve bought some that are down right dangerous. Put your finger between them while not paying attention, and you’ll lose a chunk of skin. Once is normally adequate to maintain the proper respect.
Votex is a major supplier of high quality Neodymium drain plugs. Know your size before you order. Belmetrics.com offers the same size drain plugs, but in different configurations. Let’s say the stock drain plug is an Allen type. But a drain plug with a hex head would work better. Plus you can put a hole for safety wire through a hex head . You can also get stainless steel, aluminum, or titanium. You can find all of these variations. I’ve gotten drain plugs with the magnet counter sunk and then I stack a super strong single magnet on top of it. You don’t need to worry about it getting loose. Those 2 magnets have a death grip on each other and any tiny metallic dust to small for the filter. I also use plumber’s tape on the threads to prevent leaks. I also run a bigger NCR oil cooler on some of my bikes. They also have a small drain plug that I switch to a magnet style. Plus I always drill my drain plugs for safety wire. I know some of the readers are new to the sport. One of my small contributors is to pass on little bits of wisdom, so they don’t have to learn things the hard way. I want new riders to stick with the sport and not give up the first time they get bit. Sometimes older riders forget how long it’s taken to learn the little tricks. Like safety wire. I really believe it’s important that riders know how to work on most of their bike repairs. As we all know, motorcycles do not suffer fools for very long. I live in a major city, and there’s a fatal motorcycle accident practically every day. The Paper never gives details about the riders experience or things about the bike that may have contributed to the accident.
One thing motorcyclists need to remember when they’re working on their bike. “What happens if this thing I’m tightening comes loose and falls off?” If you want to be certain it doesn’t fall off, it needs to be safety wired. If the nut, bolt, or drain plug is not pre drilled for safety wire, you need to know how to do it. If you give your bike to a work shop or Dealer for your repairs, it’s highly unlikely they will make the effort to safety wire something. “If the factory didn’t do it, it can’t be important.” I’ll let you think about that for a bit.
Find a safety wire website and learn how to do it. If you think it’s a hassle, remind yourself about what happens if whatever you’re doing falls off. Canister and cartridge oil filters also need safety wired. K&N cartridge oil filters are pre drilled for safety wire. If your engine has a cartridge filter, the screws securing the cap need to be drilled to properly safety wire. Learn how to do it. When anything oil related works loose, the problem isn’t the engine loosing oil. The problem is oil getting on your rear tire. Forget the engine, you and your family will be royally screwed.
I raced for a number of years where you safety wire everything. The tech guys force one to get good at it. But I don't safety wire anything on my street bikes and this has never been an issue. Big fan of loctite that being said. My view on the magnets is the same more and bigger can't hurt.
 
It may be useful to attach a neodymium magnet to the bottom edge of the valve covers on the outside. Neo magnets are strong enough for this to be effective. This location should be cool enough to use neodymium without getting close to the curie point which is like 300 F. Neo sintered magnets are coated to stop corrosion and can break down into sort of a powdered paste if the coating breaks down which is usually nickel or something similar so after attachment on the outside might be useful to paint them on the valve cover after attachment. And as Vyrus says attaching a big Neo one to the outside bottom of the V4 filter housing would be useful. I shove an Alnico one down the inside of the oil filters. Neo's pull is about 6 times as strong as Alnico, but Alnico is much less temperature sensitive.
Metal and contaminants in the doesn’t seem to be the killer of these engines so not sure how much these extra magnets will help with things. It seems that this viscosity breakdown is the culprit along with crap bottom end bearing tolerances. No way around the tolerances. Like VYRUS is saying, going to a 15w60 is probably better for longevity.
 
Metal and contaminants in the doesn’t seem to be the killer of these engines so not sure how much these extra magnets will help with things. It seems that this viscosity breakdown is the culprit along with crap bottom end bearing tolerances. No way around the tolerances. Like VYRUS is saying, going to a 15w60 is probably better for longevity.
redline only seems to have the 20w-60

@NYCV4S @VYRUS

i ride in frequent 95-102 ambient F temps.... so switch to 20w-60 during summer?

JAG
 
Metal and contaminants in the doesn’t seem to be the killer of these engines so not sure how much these extra magnets will help with things. It seems that this viscosity breakdown is the culprit along with crap bottom end bearing tolerances. No way around the tolerances. Like VYRUS is saying, going to a 15w60 is probably better for longevity.
You are exactly right I think. The early oil pumps seem to be inadequate when the clearances go up as the motor ages. Need to figure out the compatibility of the 2025 R pump which should be a bolt on but haven't seen one yet but will update to that pump if possible. I intend to take the scavenge screens out of the head oil returns in the pump therefore magnets. And I like to see what debris is coming from the heads. But I actually don't expect much. Most of the swarf seen on the drain plugs is transmission related.
 
redline only seems to have the 20w-60

@NYCV4S @VYRUS

i ride in frequent 95-102 ambient F temps.... so switch to 20w-60 during summer?

JAG
In your Summer heat, I would run the 20W/60. You know what it's like getting caught in heavy traffic on a hot day. It's not just the ambient air temperature. You've got the heat from the pavement, exhaust heat from the cars around you, & the body panels trapping in the heat around the engine. The exhaust headers generate tremendous heat that can't get out when you're not moving. Even a naked bike isn't much better.

I understand some folks aren't worried about safety wiring drain plugs, oil filters, & other critical nuts & bolts. I'm at a point in my life where I want to pay back to the sport I love. New riders often don't feel confident asking questions for fear of feeling foolish. Although some of you feel safety wiring isn't necessary, I've had a different experience. I remember the first time I raced the high banks at Daytona. It was Speed Week sometime in the late 70's or 1980. The Daytona 200 was a big deal back then. I was at the rider's meeting for the Sportsman class. Kenny Roberts made a special point of addressing the group. In case you don't know, KR is anything but shy. He didn't want any of us Pudknockers leaking oil on his race track. Frankly, he didn't think Sportsmen had any business on the high banks. Since he was the reigning world champion, I suppose it was his race track. He made a strong case for safety wiring. In order to emphasize the point, nailed to the wall at Tech Inspection were the leathers Barry Sheene was wearing during his legendary Daytona crash. I'll have to admit, that week made an impression on me. Street or off road, I safety wire everything I don't want to fall off. At my age I tend to forget things. My wife & riding buddies call me Mr Magoo. When I safety wire the important stuff, I know I didn't forget something.
 
I raced for a number of years where you safety wire everything. The tech guys force one to get good at it. But I don't safety wire anything on my street bikes and this has never been an issue. Big fan of loctite that being said. My view on the magnets is the same more and bigger can't hurt.
I used to think the same thing about Loctite on things that were not as critical as oil or axle nuts. As you know, you have red and blue Loctite. Red being permanent. Neither Loctite should ever be used on titanium. Only special “never seize” meant for titanium. Putting Loctite on aluminum bolts will also end badly. Especially Allen bolts. Even standard steel Allen bolts with red Loctite will be a hassle. As I’m sure you’re well aware of, rounding out an Allen bolt is a hassle. One trick to avoid rounding out Allen bolt’s is to always use fresh, undamaged Allen wrenches with a dab of Valve Grinding Compound on the Allen wrench. The compound takes up the tiny slop between the bolt and wrench. A Hand Impact driver you hit with a hammer is good for breaking loose stubborn Allen bolts. Since you may not know if the Allen bolt has Loctite, it’s better to start with compound and/or the Hand Impact before you bugger up the Allen hole. I don’t really care for Allen bolts. Whenever possible, I replace them with titanium or aluminum Torx bolts. For younger riders, Torx bolts are less prone to rounding out than Allen bolts.
Which gets me to the merits of Loctite. I still use thread locker in certain situations. I prefer “omniFIT 100”. It never hardens. It’s also designed to grip in oily conditions. It’s more expensive, but a tube last for years. Another major benefit is it prevents dissimilar metals from galling together over time. I recently bought the Ducati e mountain bike. Like WSBK mechanic’s, I always take apart a new motorcycle and put it back together properly. As I did the same thing to the e-bike, I noticed every one of the aluminum screws was already galled. It was nearly impossible to remove the factory installed screws. I replaced all of them with titanium or stainless steel. Never Seize on all of them. Most were Philips screws, which I replaced with Torx. I’m belaboring these points for new riders who are under the impression that everything new from the factory is hunky dory. Manufacturer’s have to cut cost someplace, and this is a common place. The owner checks that everything is tight and thinks they’re good to go. Try to take it apart in 3 years and you’ll need a sledgehammer and blowtorch.
I’m not criticizing anyone. I did the same things before I gradually learned about different and better ways. I appreciate anyone who offers a better way. I love learning a new trick of the trade. I know I’ve drifted away from the original oil subject and into the ways of keeping the oil where it belongs.
 
right, i was saying there is no 15-60...only 20-60

Jag
Oh okay, gotcha.

Also to note unless you are ONLY riding in 90-100F i would be on the fence for upping oil viscosity especially with redline as It is very very durable and thick stuff to begin with.

You should be okay to run the 20/60 but just note on start up its viscosity at CST 40c is very high in comparison to the 15/50. When it comes to bearing clearances the thicker the oil especially on cold start has a tougher time finding its place in tight tolerances. For example starting the bike in 50-70F temps with the 20/60 would take way longer to reach operate temps than the 50W , alongside it will flow a lot slower than a 50W with the CST40 #s being very different.

The 20/60 will be your friend in 90-100F ambient , but may very well be your enemy in 50-70F ambient until it is properly warmed up.

One thing is for certain... 7.0 HTHS is amazing for the 20/60. Superb protection on high temp high sheer.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot (151).png
    Screenshot (151).png
    48.1 KB
  • Screenshot (152).png
    Screenshot (152).png
    46.9 KB
Last edited:

Register CTA

Register on Ducati Forum! This sidebar will go away, and you will see fewer ads.
Back
Top