V4s Build - From Start To Finish

Update: Garage/Annexe build is nearing completion. On the home stretch now just the last of the 2nd fixings to complete, a little more electrical work and the bathroom and plumbing upstairs to go in. Then flooring, skirting and carpets. Lastly the fencing and driveway and we should be almost there. 3-4 more weeks and I can go collect the bikes and crack on where I left off (fingers crossed!)

topolino said:

This stuff is ideal for load bearing applications and what the factory recommend for axles, bushes, hubs etc, so I always keep a tube at hand for the muckier jobs.

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I was planning to use Silver AntiSeize to install all the Titanium Bolts on my bike.
Thanks to the information from your post above, I realized that Ducati factory actually recommend grease instead of antisieze
so I decided to purchased the same grease as in the picture on your post above: Shell Gadus S2 V220 2


However, before I installed the bolts on my bike, I decided to check the service manual for our bike one more time, and turn out Ducati recommend a slightly different version of the grease which is the one with the "SOLIDS" and have very small part# differences:
SHELL GADUS S2 V220AD 2 HIGH PERFORMANCE MULTIPURPOSE EXTREME PRESSURE GREASE WITH SOLIDS 400GM

I am sure the first grease that you recommend will work fine (I check the MSDS and material/chemical properties and they are very similar),
however, I want to follow the exact Ducati factory recommendation so I purchase a second grease at Amazon:
Amazon.com: SHELL GADUS S2 V220AD 2 HIGH PERFORMANCE MULTIPURPOSE EXTREME PRESSURE GREASE WITH SOLIDS 400GM: Automotive
and below is the picture of the Ducati recommended grease:

This is genius level stuff, keep up the great work!

Does the Ducati manual actually state to use GADUS on Ti fasteners? (I don’t know, just asking)You will find Ti Prep in most “team” tool boxes.

I am sure most the teams would say vaseline would work.

endodoc said:

Does the Ducati manual actually state to use GADUS on Ti fasteners? (I don’t know, just asking)You will find Ti Prep in most “team” tool boxes.

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No, but the service manual did not specify to use GADUS on other materials (like stainless steel) too.

The point of using a (GADUS) lubricant in this case is to ensure proper torque of the bolts (and not so much for the antiseizing which is more to prevent chemical reaction between metals of different properties)

As I point out above, I initially plan to use Loctite Silver Grade Antiseize: McMaster-Carr because it is compatible with the following materials (and because I already have several bottles of this Loctite Silver Grade anti-seize):

However, my priority for this application is not to reduce the chance of seizing (chemical reaction/corrosion between differing material or seizing due to particle contamination) because Titanium (or Stainless Steel in Topolino case) is inherently corrosion resistant and I make sure every bolt is clean before I install them (I even wipe them with isopropyl alcohol in some cases). There will be corrosion of course between differing metal, but I am pretty sure, I will be too old (or most likely I am no longer on earth) to remove the bolt anyway when the Titanium bolt (or stainless steel bolt) have seizing problem with the aluminum/iron part of the engine. Even the stock Ducati bolt will eventually (after thousand of years) seize because their chemical/material properties due to different alloying/process will have differences than the chemical/material properties of the engine block or suspension bracket it attached too.

If I am using the Loctite silver grade antiseize or the antiseize paste that came with some of the ProTi bolt kits, the torque applied to the bolts might be different as a result of different friction reducing effect compare to the Gadus.
You might be able to test it with your finger, grab the antiseize paste, using your finger, test the friction on your finger, then compare it with the Gadus lubricant again using your finger and feel the differences in slipperiness.

Since my priority is in ensuring the right torque applied, then the friction reducing factor of the correct GADUS lubricant is important to ensure, I will meet the recommended Ducati factory torque when I tightened the bolts (because they also use Gadus lubricant at the factory instead of other type of antiseize).

This is a good article about this:
The Importance of Using Thread Lubricants in Bolted Connections

edit:
and on this page, you can even find the different torque coefficient of Loctite antiseize products:
Loctite Anti-Seize | What Type Do You Require?

By the way, any plan to replace the engine side cover and bottom sump bolts, I noticed from this 2 left and right pictures of your engine assembled on your bike that the engine cover bolts were still stock, maybe you change them already but just haven't update the picture but in case you haven't:







Since you prefer Stainless Steel finish, below are pictures as preview for you on how it looks like on mine because I choose ProTi Titanium bolts but in Silver Titanium Finish which basically looks the same as Stainless Steel finish.
I choose Silver Titanium Finish to make it "contrast" with the magnesium colored engine covers.
Those stock Ducati engine block looks "crude" and borderline ugly, compare to the rest of the stainless steel bolts on your bike.





Also I noticed that you replaced all the banjo bolts on the brake master cylinder and the brake caliper with stainless steel banjo bolts, right?, But the banjo bolts on your ABS still stock (at least on the picture on the left that you posted a while ago) :
Just in case you want to see how it looks like if you decide to replace it with stainless steel to match the rest of your banjo bolts, the RIGHT picture is mine, (ProTi but in titanium silver so very similar to stainless steel):




Oh, I also replace the oil filter bolts with ProTi in Titanium silver color too (picture below), do you have plan to replace yours with stainless steel?


EDIT: Oh, I just noticed that you already installed the Akrapovic manifold... well that is going to make it hard to replace the lower sump bolts...

Thanks for the pics BMW Alpina. I may well replace these bolts at some point. Right now I have to focus my attention on the garage/annexe build project which is sapping most of my resources and makes any expenditure on a bike pale into insignificance in terms of monetary outlay thus far. Once that's out the way we will see. I do agree about the stock engine bolts and your ProTi set up looks nice, but I would probably opt for conical head polished stainless fasteners as opposed to torx head titanium fasteners, just to remain consistent with my other bolts. I don't like to mix and match, if I can help it. As mentioned before, weight loss is not my goal here, so titanium is not a necessary option, though I have and will be using a number of titanium parts elsewhere on the bike.

@topolino you couldn't be more right about the airbox bolts being made out of cheese. Of the eight, three of them stripped. I remembered your plight whereas you attempted to drill a stripped screw but ended up cracking the airbox. I kept the lefthanded bits on the shelf and instead went with a dremel with a cut off wheel. Made a nice little slot and turned them right out with a flat head. If they weren't magnetic I'd swear they were aluminium.

Chucked them all in the trash and replaced them with stainless.

Same as the throttle body screws. Three of the eight stripped but this time I hammered in a slightly too big torx bit and very slowly turned them out. I think this may have been due to an egregious amount of locktite applied at the factory along with a soft steel bolt.

I can confirm the Streetfighter V4 does not have the adjusting length throttle bodies like the Panagale V4.

bp_SFV4 said:

@topolino you couldn't be more right about the airbox bolts being made out of cheese. Of the eight, three of them stripped. I remembered your plight whereas you attempted to drill a stripped screw but ended up cracking the airbox. I kept the lefthanded bits on the shelf and instead went with a dremel with a cut off wheel. Made a nice little slot and turned them right out with a flat head. If they weren't magnetic I'd swear they were aluminium.

Chucked them all in the trash and replaced them with stainless.

Same as the throttle body screws. Three of the eight stripped but this time I hammered in a slightly too big torx bit and very slowly turned them out. I think this may have been due to an egregious amount of locktite applied at the factory along with a soft steel bolt.

I can confirm the Streetfighter V4 does not have the adjusting length throttle bodies like the Panagale V4.

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I simply don't understand why Ducati use such large amounts of Loctite on their threads. It's ordinarily not an issue but since the vast majority of the shallow profile allen headed bolts they use on the Panigale V4 are about as robust as chocolate, I've yet to hear of anyone who manages to escaped destroying at least a few of them (as you have also discovered) when attempting to remove them. Thumbs up for the Dremel. Amazing little tool. Mine is a few years old now but it is still invaluable for all sorts of jobs, not just bike related ones.

I don't see how a race team could put up with the low quality fasteners. Unless they're going your route and replacing everything from the get go. Instead of the allen key under the seat they should have put in a set of Easyout bits.

Dremels are a mixed bag of joy and pain. Used recklessly they create as many problems as they'd solve.

bp_SFV4 said:

I don't see how a race team could put up with the low quality fasteners. Unless they're going your route and replacing everything from the get go. Instead of the allen key under the seat they should have put in a set of Easyout bits.

Dremels are a mixed bag of joy and pain. Used recklessly they create as many problems as they'd solve.

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It was not that long ago when Ducati used to actually give you a tool kit with each bike! (albeit a rather cheap and crude one).

bp_SFV4 said:

I don't see how a race team could put up with the low quality fasteners. Unless they're going your route and replacing everything from the get go. Instead of the allen key under the seat they should have put in a set of Easyout bits.

Dremels are a mixed bag of joy and pain. Used recklessly they create as many problems as they'd solve.

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its about utility, you don't need champagne solutions to beer problems. Rebuilding or "blueprinting" as we used to say is optional, nice to do and reap benefits but its not necessary most of the time to replace a perfectly adequate low grade fastener with titanium or stainless.

topolino said:

It was not that long ago when Ducati used to actually give you a tool kit with each bike! (albeit a rather cheap and crude one).

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got one with the 1299, useless! I think its because there is almost no roadside repair that you can do on a late model superbke. But the one that came with the 1977 Ural, man that toolkit you could rebuild a Mack truck with it!

Paul G said:

its about utility, you don't need champagne solutions to beer problems. Rebuilding or "blueprinting" as we used to say is optional, nice to do and reap benefits but its not necessary most of the time to replace a perfectly adequate low grade fastener with titanium or stainless.

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I agree.
Most of the time stripped threads and damage to screws and bolts is user error.
When I damage a screw due to not engaging the tool properly, I blame me not the screw.

bradp51 said:

I agree.
Most of the time stripped threads and damage to screws and bolts is user error.
When I damage a screw due to not engaging the tool properly, I blame me not the screw.

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Take a V4 down to the throttle bodies and post your results.

bp_SFV4 said:

Take a V4 down to the throttle bodies and post your results.

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I did, just last weekend,

and none of the stock bolts stripped, here is my post about it:
Ducati Panigale V4 916 25 Anniversario Build Thread

Yes, the stock bolt was very tight (plus that generous Loctite that Ducati use),
but as long as you don't slip, then the head of the bolts would not stripped... so how do you prevent from slipping?
well, to make it easier, copy and paste of my post below:

Now, please pay attention on the TORX bit and WRENCH that I used to open all the TORX bolts/screw,
because using this kind of tools setup, allow me to take out every screws (Torx/Hex whatever size) without having any problem.
NONE of the Ducati original screws that I took out have stripped head.

From what I read, several peoples stripped their Ducati screws/bolt head while doing this,
I believe this was because a regular Screwdriver Style Torx tool or the regular L-Shaped simple Torx/Socket tool were used.

The advantage of using the setup like I did below are 2 folds:
First it allow you to really comfortably PUSH from the top into the Torx opening of the bolt/screw to prevent slippage (thus NO stripped heads)
Second, the long racheting wrench also allow extra leverage (plus due to it's thick handle, it was also comfortable to hold),
and despite the crazy loctite used on the thread, I can open all the bolts like they are loose...

The picture below show the throttle body exposed after I remove the adjustable Velocity Stack assy. and my racheting wrench/torx bit tools setup:




Now it's time to remove the whole MIKUNI Throttle Body Assy. There are 24 bolts, all TORX, again easy to remove:




This how it look like after the MIKUNI Throttle Body assy remove:




Then you need to remove all those wiring (just the wiring not the rubber fuel line) that goes to the lower injectors and also remove 8 more TORX style bolts that hold the lower intake tract and the lower airbox at the same time:

Pictures of the stock bolts (all throttle body related) that I took out using the method above:

I wasn't responding to you. That dude has a prior record of low rent drive by posts which do not give anything to the community.

For the record, the torx screws have never been a problem. Just the allen head and a couple of yours look a bit worse for wear. The big problem were the tiny allen head bolts, battery holder to airbox and MAF sensor to airbox size, not the larger one you pictured.

bp_SFV4 said:

I wasn't responding to you. That dude has a prior record of low rent drive by posts which do not give anything to the community.

For the record, the torx screws have never been a problem. Just the allen head and a couple of yours look a bit worse for wear. The big problem were the tiny allen head bolts, battery holder to airbox and MAF sensor to airbox size, not the larger one you pictured.

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Do you mean this small silver bolts (picture below), these are all the bolts I need to took out so I can remove the throttle body assy.:


These small silver bolts are actually even easier to take out than those larger black color bolts and as you can see no stripped head on this smaller silver one.

Some of those black bolts above were not stripped, but their black coating was chipped due to the strong force exerted by my tools setup.

On this smaller silver bolts, I use similar setup but with smaller 1/4" ratcheting wrench instead of the 3/8" ratcheting wrench...

Please test and try using ratcheting wrench the next time you take out these bolts, the key is to also push (preferably directly) from the top of the bolts so it won't slip, I believe it will make a different, and you can feel it when you open the first bolt.
Seriously, I was very worry that I will stripped the head of the bolts too before I managed to open the first bolt without drama... then I felt relief...