What V4 track upgrades for $15K?

RODOLFO said:

Tom, about more trail

do you get some more trail by raising the bike on the front?

lowering the forks on the triple clamp?


what does it do, does the front feel more planted?

i have a 19 V4S, and turn in, is fast

but have always wished to make it feel more planted in the front

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Is this a street bike or race bike rodolfo? If street, you won’t feel much difference. If track, adding more trail gives you more mid-corner stability. To get meaningful trail you need reduced offset triple clamps.

$141.00 plus probably another 100 in plumbing and hardware. Done. I love watching that guy on the H2r crush the track guys. Yea he gets hit in the corners but he is getting better. Now of course I'm being a bit silly with the bottle, or am I. If its just a track bike and sanctioning plays no part of the event, its pretty damn cool. Of course to do it right you would need some motor work but you would literally walk away from guys when you wanted to and they wouldn't know WTF to do.

I would start with some simple protection items eg fork slider, frame protection and tank grip.

Before buying any performance parts ride it for a while at the track and then replace those OEM parts that you are out riding or which don’t operate to your riding style.


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OK, adding Magnesium wheels to the Wheel category.

What brands would you recommend?

TomFoolery said:

Is this a street bike or race bike rodolfo? If street, you won’t feel much difference. If track, adding more trail gives you more mid-corner stability. To get meaningful trail you need reduced offset triple clamps.

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yes Tom it is track and street

but looking exactly for more mid-corner grip or stability on track

What triple clamps do you recomend?

mean while, does lowering the forks on the triple clamp, give me at least some minor trail increase?

You know with all these Ducati videos popping up of stock V4's doing these impressive lap times at various tracks and all the chest pounding "look how awesome the bike I ride is", I find these "track upgrade" threads somewhat interesting. If the bikes in the videos are legit (stock within reason) maybe there should be a few more "rider upgrade threads" as it sounds like these bikes don't need anything to be top shelf competitors. Now of course I'm being a ...... but I am really interested in this. I'm a parts junkie, I'm never ever ever going to out ride a stock 600 so I get the "cool parts" thing but from a legit "going fast" mindset, if these bikes are that good, why is everyone (unless you just like cool parts which is fine) "upgrading" a bike that obviously needs (other than tires and some ergo changes) nothing to run competitive SBK lap times. Like I said, I am a total parts/tech poser, none of that .... would help me. A year at SBK school, might.

endodoc said:

You know with all these Ducati videos popping up of stock V4's doing these impressive lap times at various tracks and all the chest pounding "look how awesome the bike I ride is", I find these "track upgrade" threads somewhat interesting. If the bikes in the videos are legit (stock within reason) maybe there should be a few more "rider upgrade threads" as it sounds like these bikes don't need anything to be top shelf competitors. Now of course I'm being a ...... but I am really interested in this. I'm a parts junkie, I'm never ever ever going to out ride a stock 600 so I get the "cool parts" thing but from a legit "going fast" mindset, if these bikes are that good, why is everyone (unless you just like cool parts which is fine) "upgrading" a bike that obviously needs (other than tires and some ergo changes) nothing to run competitive SBK lap times. Like I said, I am a total parts/tech poser, none of that .... would help me. A year at SBK school, might.

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i guess from my part

the 19 V4S, needs some geometri tunning to be up to par with the 21 V4S

as I am not a pro chassis or suspension tunner, I am having some trouble or fear, doing this adjustments

About the parts things, there is always something better

and those amassing times only appear in YouTube videos

i don’t see them racing stock bikes, not even close

I’m lost so this is a track bike not a race bike. Are you telling me That Pirro couldn’t take a bone stock 2019 V4S (plus suspension and ergo adjustments) and lap the piss out of everyone next track day at COTA on all their fancy upgraded machines? These videos sure make it appear so. No one is talking about pro riders racing stock bikes. Their abilities have reached the point where suspension, brake and power plant considerations are valid.

The videos however show pro riders on stock bikes turning laps that no one on this board is could turn no matter what mods they had. Clearly the bike is not the limiting factor for going fast even in stock config.

I’m not a decent rider by any means but on numerous occasions at track events I have attended, there are all kinds of guys with a bunch of $$ in suspension, brake and performance upgrades that made me look a lot less shittier than I actually am.

What prompted these guys to conclude they needed all these upgrades? I’m just try to understand the point of self intervention when someone who isn’t remotely close to out riding the stock configuration decides they need to open the check book.

Not at all trying to be disrespectful to anyone, I’m just genuinely curious.

endodoc said:

I’m lost so this is a track bike not a race bike. Are you telling me That Pirro couldn’t take a bone stock 2019 V4S (plus suspension and ergo adjustments) and lap the piss out of everyone next track day at COTA on all their fancy upgraded machines? These videos sure make it appear so. No one is talking about pro riders racing stock bikes. Their abilities have reached the point where suspension, brake and power plant considerations are valid.

The videos however show pro riders on stock bikes turning laps that no one on this board is could turn no matter what mods they had. Clearly the bike is not the limiting factor for going fast even in stock config.

I’m not a decent rider by any means but on numerous occasions at track events I have attended, there are all kinds of guys with a bunch of $$ in suspension, brake and performance upgrades that made me look a lot less shittier than I actually am.

What prompted these guys to conclude they needed all these upgrades? I’m just try to understand the point of self intervention when someone who isn’t remotely close to out riding the stock configuration decides they need to open the check book.

Not at all trying to be disrespectful to anyone, I’m just genuinely curious.

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I qualified a stock ZX10R Kawasaki on a BSB superstock grid in 2017 (maybe 16). The bike had stock shock, stock forks stock brake pads, stock electronics, no fuel map. Geo was adjusted (forks moved through the clamps.

So, yes, a stock road bike, is plenty fast enough.

However, after about three fast laps, the stock shock would lose damping control. So, the shock 100% needs upgrading for fast track riding.
That bike, at two UK circuits (Snetterton and Donington Park GP) still holds my PB, despite going to a newer and 'better' S1000RR and then Ducati V4R, both with all the upgrades in the world (fuel maps, throttle maps, better tyres, upgraded forks and shocks etc). And, my PB at those circuits was within four seconds of the lap record, and much less than four seconds off the back of the BSB Superbike laptimes.

So, what is the benefit of very expensive brake pads and all sorts of 'upgrades'? Often, it is not just pure performance, but items that 'feel' nicer, but also allow you to have more consistent lap times, and give you confidence.

And the V4R, is actually just a nice thing to own, and something that is more enjoyable to ride than either the Kawasaki or the BMW, even though I'm slower on it than either of those bikes!

Great answers and much appreciated. I would however based on your personal observations and that your skill level say this is way on the extreme end. You are talking about racing and you are a very accomplished rider. Would you give the same answer for the non racer track rider who does a few track days a year who dumps a lot of money into their “track bike” This is the target group I am most interested in.

I think everyone has a budget for shiny or go fast parts. Even the most casual rider. Personally I don’t go out drinking/partying except 3-4x a year to celebrate mates birthdays or weddings etc. However a lot of people I know spend $x00 per week on drinks/substances/gambling/ubers home so I consider riding as my lifestyle cost to keep me ‘relatively’ sane.
Fairly new to track riding, however the roads where I live are so bad I’m just converting my 1299 to focus on that full time now because it’s just not fun riding it anywhere else. Beyond coaching and consumables I give myself a bit of a budget for some nice upgrades a couple times a year which will be a lot less going forward since more time on the bike is my main goaI because exactly as you say, the bike’s far beyond my abilities as is. But there’s the circle of (track) life

endodoc said:

I’m lost so this is a track bike not a race bike. Are you telling me That Pirro couldn’t take a bone stock 2019 V4S (plus suspension and ergo adjustments) and lap the piss out of everyone next track day at COTA on all their fancy upgraded machines? These videos sure make it appear so. No one is talking about pro riders racing stock bikes. Their abilities have reached the point where suspension, brake and power plant considerations are valid.

The videos however show pro riders on stock bikes turning laps that no one on this board is could turn no matter what mods they had. Clearly the bike is not the limiting factor for going fast even in stock config.

I’m not a decent rider by any means but on numerous occasions at track events I have attended, there are all kinds of guys with a bunch of $$ in suspension, brake and performance upgrades that made me look a lot less shittier than I actually am.

What prompted these guys to conclude they needed all these upgrades? I’m just try to understand the point of self intervention when someone who isn’t remotely close to out riding the stock configuration decides they need to open the check book.

Not at all trying to be disrespectful to anyone, I’m just genuinely curious.

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I expect it’s for exactly the same reasons you or I for that matter make these changes but to varying degrees.


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Alkhater said:

I expect it’s for exactly the same reasons you or I for that matter make these changes but to varying degrees.


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What laptimes professional motogp level racers run with our bikes is absolutely meaningless and has zero bearing on what that bike feels like to average trackday hobbyists / club racers. Pro racers can ride a clapped out SV650 and still be faster than you or me on liter bikes. Talk to any reputable race shop / suspension guy and they will tell you the V4 platform is tricky to get dialed in. Even experienced journalists who sample bikes for a living have said that for years. By that same logic, guys don't need carbon wheels, motogp billet brake reservoirs, extended swingarms and carbon forks and those people should all be investing in rider coaching. ehh, that doesn't make much sense does it?

The V4 I am sure even in base trim is perfectly good going to starbucks and chassis dynamics are not in play on the street. It's when you start moving around a race track at a fair clip that chassis setup is exposed and the personalization requirements get higher and higher.

I see so the videos that cause all the chest pumping are completely rigged. The stock bikes are not capable of those lap times without considerable “set up” and rider coaching is not necessary if you have expensive parts. Got it. Man I should be really fast next track day

Yes you will, I can feel it!!!

I still vote for the Nitrous

endodoc said:

Are you telling me That Pirro couldn’t take a bone stock 2019 V4S (plus suspension and ergo adjustments) and lap the piss out of everyone next track day at COTA on all their fancy upgraded machines?

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Pirro could probably lap the piss out of everybody at the next track day on a stock bike even if you stole two of his spark plugs.

1/2 of my motorcycle funds go to coaching/schools, the other half goes to tires / trackdays / parts.

I don’t need the domino throttle but I use full throttle a lot more now with the shorter rotation.

I don’t need a data logger, but it showed me that I wasn’t using full throttle nearly as often as I thought I was. So I focused on making sure that I take the throttle all the way to the stop whenever I can.

I don’t need a set of magnesium wheels, but they do help the bike turn easier and I don’t get as tired at the end of a track day and I enjoy the day a little more. Plus I used the stock forged aluminum rims to mount my rain tires on, so I don’t have to go home or sit out sessions if it gets wet.

None of these things I need, the stock bike is pretty damn good. Pretty much all of my aftermarket stuff makes getting faster a little easier and makes the pace of improvement faster.

Plus, I do all of the wrenching myself and I enjoy spending a day tinkering.

Now that was a good post. Burton actually took the time to explain his rationale behind what he does and why he does it. We’ll done

TomFoolery said:

What laptimes professional motogp level racers run with our bikes is absolutely meaningless and has zero bearing on what that bike feels like to average trackday hobbyists / club racers. Pro racers can ride a clapped out SV650 and still be faster than you or me on liter bikes. Talk to any reputable race shop / suspension guy and they will tell you the V4 platform is tricky to get dialed in. Even experienced journalists who sample bikes for a living have said that for years. By that same logic, guys don't need carbon wheels, motogp billet brake reservoirs, extended swingarms and carbon forks and those people should all be investing in rider coaching. ehh, that doesn't make much sense does it?

The V4 I am sure even in base trim is perfectly good going to starbucks and chassis dynamics are not in play on the street. It's when you start moving around a race track at a fair clip that chassis setup is exposed and the personalization requirements get higher and higher.

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Why were you quoting me in this post?

Or is it because you’ve ignored endo?

Anyway endo’s question is rhetorical and of course pros can do better with a vastly inferior bike, just look at moto3 lap times and try to replicate that.


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Come on, thicken the skin guys!!