What V4 track upgrades for $15K?

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endodoc said:
Great answers and much appreciated. I would however based on your personal observations and that your skill level say this is way on the extreme end. You are talking about racing and you are a very accomplished rider. Would you give the same answer for the non racer track rider who does a few track days a year who dumps a lot of money into their “track bike” This is the target group I am most interested in.
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I like to go fast, and I like the car/bike to be able to handle MORE than I can give it as rider/driver.

It’s also mostly about improving feel…the better I can feel what’s going on combined with an increase in stability the faster I’m comfortable going.
 
On Wheels

I have both the Ducati Magnesium Wheels and the ThysenKrupp CF wheels.

Love both, but the ThysenKrupp did make a noticeable different in handling even over the magnesium wheels despite being not that much different in weight.

That’s because the ThysenKrupp use a different manufacturing process than all the other CF wheels on the market, so they have better weight distribution than any other wheel in the world right now, because the barrel is much lighter….so the weight is more central to the hub and there is less gyroscopic forces generated than on any other wheel out there including other CF wheels.

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The very best upgrade in terms of value for money is getting a set of wheels for the base model, the cast to forged transformation in handling is significant, I would not go carbon. The most bang for buck is picking up a set of S wheels in the classifieds- for say 1500, or go for the Oz gass wheels if you want something more trick. Do not get magnesium wheels for the street.

Spend your money on unsprung weight reduction, suspension, then ergonomic improvements i.e rearsets, seat, levers etc. TBH a pipe falls into the nice to have category for trackdays, unless you want the extra power just get Phil to core it.

All that said, I think you would be delighted in how the base goes once its setup for you without any upgrades. I would tend to go down that route with coaching and a good suspension tech helping, then as you add each upgrade you will feel and appreciate it. The good news is that the difference in lap times will be negligible in practical terms between models until you can really start pushing.
 
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Paul G said:
The very best upgrade in terms of value for money is getting a set of wheels for the base model, the cast to forged transformation in handling is significant, I would not go carbon. The most bang for buck is picking up a set of S wheels in the classifieds- for say 1500, or go for the Oz gass wheels if you want something more trick. Do not get magnesium wheels for the street.

Spend your money on unsprung weight reduction, suspension, then ergonomic improvements i.e rearsets, seat, levers etc. TBH a pipe falls into the nice to have category for trackdays, unless you want the extra power just get Phil to core it.

All that said, I think you would be delighted in how the base goes once its setup for you without any upgrades. I would tend to go down that route with coaching and a good suspension tech helping, then as you add each upgrade you will feel and appreciate it. The good news is that the difference in lap times will be negligible in practical terms between models until you can really start pushing.
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You are WAY more experienced than me, but in one minor bit I disagree from my limited personal experience…putting the ThysenKrupp wheels abs the Sicom rotors on my bike made such a huge difference in handling that it required retuning my suspension.

So if you know for sure you are going to significantly reduce your rotational masses and therefore the bikes gyroscopic forces I’d do that first then suspension 2nd, so you don’t have to tune your suspension twice.
 
ducati851 said:
Thanks Steven,
That's the kind of info I'm looking for on CF/Magnesium wheel upgrades. :)
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Look up a guy here at the Forum named Cycler

He’ll get you a good deal on Thysenkrupps, abs a lot of other upgrades if you go that route.
 
You're right, any reduction in unsprung weight is an improvement and a far better place to spend money. Im just thinking about diminishing returns, what did your rotors and wheels cost 8k? 851 only has 15 in total.
 
Paul G said:
You're right, any reduction in unsprung weight is an improvement and a far better place to spend money. Im just thinking about diminishing returns, what did your rotors and wheels cost 8k? 851 only has 15 in total.
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Yeah on that budget I wouldn’t do the Sicom Rotors, but wheels at the prices Cycler can get I’d do if I were him.


Having said that, those rotors reduced rotational mass by FAR more than anything else and made the biggest impact of handling

It’s about 4 or 5 pounds off the front wheel assembly.
 
Spend your money on unsprung weight reduction, suspension then ergonomic improvements i.e rearsets, seat, levers etc. TBH a pipe falls into the nice to have category for trackdays, unless you want the extra power get Phil to core it
bp_SFV4 said:
I'm not in the carbon wheel camp but why don't you like them?
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For track I like the fact that metal wheels act as a heat reservoir
 
Steven31371 said:
Yeah on that budget I wouldn’t do the Sicom Rotors, but wheels at the prices Cycler can get I’d do if I were him.


Having said that, those rotors reduced rotational mass by FAR more than anything else and made the biggest impact of handling

It’s about 4 or 5 pounds off the front wheel assembly.
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I would be lying if I said I wasnt jealous :)
 
ThysenKrupp Wheels $3700
Corsa Corta brake MC $600
Brembro GP4-MS calipers $2500
Racing seat $300
Domino Quick turn Throtle $600
TTX GP rear shock with appropriate spring $1250
Front fork internals FKR 108 or similar $2000
Sicom front Rotors $4000

That’s about a $15k list of upgrades that all make a huge difference….and that have a feeling of specialness or a cool factor to them with regard to their quality as parts. Which I don’t care what you say, you care about if you own a Ducati lol
 
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endodoc said:
You know with all these Ducati videos popping up of stock V4's doing these impressive lap times at various tracks and all the chest pounding "look how awesome the bike I ride is", I find these "track upgrade" threads somewhat interesting. If the bikes in the videos are legit (stock within reason) maybe there should be a few more "rider upgrade threads" as it sounds like these bikes don't need anything to be top shelf competitors. Now of course I'm being a ...... but I am really interested in this. I'm a parts junkie, I'm never ever ever going to out ride a stock 600 so I get the "cool parts" thing but from a legit "going fast" mindset, if these bikes are that good, why is everyone (unless you just like cool parts which is fine) "upgrading" a bike that obviously needs (other than tires and some ergo changes) nothing to run competitive SBK lap times. Like I said, I am a total parts/tech poser, none of that .... would help me. A year at SBK school, might.
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Endo, I get what you are saying. There is immense satisfaction and enjoyment improving the bikes, and there is no end to it. They can always be upgraded as tech does not stand still but the 80/20 rules applies or in bikes the contact patch rule! You only get 2 credit cards worth no matter what. Any track day has bunnies on big bores burning people off on the straights and tiptoeing in the turns but their lap times suck, a trained rider on a 600 will waste an average rider on a panigale everytime. Re your comments on the base and SBK lap times, look at MotoGP, a second or 2 at most can separate the entire field of 24 riders. An S will get within seconds of MotoGP lap times, but once you start needing to shave 1/10's or 1/100's you would be totally at home with the gear upgrades! Youtube click hunters I generally dont trust btw.

Its all about the relatives, and I dont mean your sister!
 
Paul G said:
Endo, I get what you are saying. There is immense satisfaction and enjoyment improving the bikes, and there is no end to it. They can always be upgraded as tech does not stand still but the 80/20 rules applies or in bikes the contact patch rule! You only get 2 credit cards worth no matter what. Any track day has bunnies on big bores burning people off on the straights and tiptoeing in the turns but their lap times suck, a trained rider on a 600 will waste an average rider on a panigale everytime. Re your comments on the base and SBK lap times, look at MotoGP, a second or 2 at most can separate the entire field of 24 riders. An S will get within seconds of MotoGP lap times, but once you start needing to shave 1/10's or 1/100's you would be totally at home with the gear upgrades! Youtube click hunters I generally dont trust btw.

Its all about the relatives, and I dont mean your sister!
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I’m inclined to agree with you here except for a v4s lapping within “seconds” of a MotoGP bike. How many seconds are we talking? I don’t see a 190 whp production bike lapping within 10 or 15 seconds of a prototype putting another ~100 hp to the ground.
 
craig bush said:
I’m inclined to agree with you here except for a v4s lapping within “seconds” of a MotoGP bike. How many seconds are we talking? I don’t see a 190 whp production bike lapping within 10 or 15 seconds of a prototype putting another ~100 hp to the ground.
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I agree with you Craig. Also important to know who is doing the riding. A moto gp rider can ride a ...... ... bike and still be very fast, it has zero bearing on what the bike does in the hands of mortals. To take what a world class athlete does with a bike and extrapolating that to the larger public is not useful.

I completely tune out all the lap times published by manufacturers done by pro riders are nothing more than advertising/press blitz. Whatever.
 
Paul G said:
Spend your money on unsprung weight reduction, suspension then ergonomic improvements i.e rearsets, seat, levers etc. TBH a pipe falls into the nice to have category for trackdays, unless you want the extra power get Phil to core it

For track I like the fact that metal wheels act as a heat reservoir
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Whose Phil abs what does he do to these engines?
 
Man, what the hell happened to getting a bike and putting good tires on and riding the .... out of it. Times, they are a changing...
 
Basically everyone is focused on "upgrades" not realising that the bike they have is a virtual WSBK from 10 years ago! For 99% of Ducati owners, the very best gold standard ultimate upgrade is between the ears. After some quality training then its practice, practice, practice.
 

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