Wheelie Control

didn't understand a word, but nice vid!

Ok, my take on the subject: There is no 'wheelie' control per se. However, if you set the traction control to 5 or 6 there will be wheel slip when you slam the throttle open and power will cut, hence no wheelie. Set it on lower settings and typically the front will come up and stay up.

The problem I have with the system is when I want the front up to come up a bit it's really difficult to control because though I have decent enough skills to keep the front hovering with my wrist with TC off, when TC is on it's really hard to predict when it will cut power. Instead of just slamming the front up and letting your rear brake/wrist control rise, you are forced to ride the very thin line between wheelie and wheel spin instead of just wheelie, if that makes any sense.

The trick is to keep traction control settings low so TC doesn't interfere with wheelies.

In a perfect world TC would be less sensitive when the bike is in a straight line and more sensitive the farther over the bike is leaned.

It seems the limited Pani supposedly has wheelie control / launch control as a switch on the left handlebar.. dealer said he saw it during the special reveal in New Orleans..

During the initial part of a wheelie, when the front wheel just lifted-up or break from the road surface, is this wheel spin for the front faster than the rear wheel while still accelerating?

turnone said:

I have just been assuming this thing had wheelie control along with all the other electronics. According to Motorcycle News and Motorcycles - Motorcycle USA first ride report, one of the 'lows' was 'no wheelie control'.

Anyone else presume it had it?

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Thorough research about specs will save disappointment.

Just like reading the supplied manual can also answer basic questions.

overpitch said:

Just read review from latest AMCN, talks of 'accelerometer backed traction control'. Is this a different TC system (not refined but totally new) to 1198 SP? I see no front wheel speed sensor or any other cables not associated with brake lines on 1199. How will this fare with the theory of TC acting as a form of wheelie control due different wheel speeds between front and rear?
Also does anyone know how different the S model tested at Yas with the termi pipe and no mirrors is if at all to production model?
I've also noted from photos at first test there are different bar end weights, the tested bikes bar ends are grey and larger, publicity photos though show black bar ends and much smaller, very interesting I say..smoothness.
Cheers all.

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The ABS equiped Panigales have ABS both front and rear that can function seperately from one another so it would defnitely be aware of the difference between front and rear wheel speeds...

Gunny, my tech at the local Ducati shop says there is an accelerometer in the rear of the bike that acts as a device to dissuade any overly sudden acceleration such as the instigating of a wheelie, or violent acceleration that could lead to "instability". Is he mistaken? Is the device only designed to deal with lateral acceleration as used by the TC? What setting of the TC allows easy lifting of the front wheel? I have left mine on the default #4 setting (Race setting) and it never wants to lift the front end. Maybe I am not cranking on the throttle hard enough?

uh yeah, wheelie control, my right hand...and set to wet mode 120

HarmonyJim said:

Gunny, my tech at the local Ducati shop says there is an accelerometer in the rear of the bike that acts as a device to dissuade any overly sudden acceleration such as the instigating of a wheelie, or violent acceleration that could lead to "instability". Is he mistaken? Is the device only designed to deal with lateral acceleration as used by the TC? What setting of the TC allows easy lifting of the front wheel? I have left mine on the default #4 setting (Race setting) and it never wants to lift the front end. Maybe I am not cranking on the throttle hard enough?

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I don't think so. Both of my 1199's (Base and and R) carry the front end as far as you want. I inadvertently stood it all the way up coming out of the pits one time to see what it would do, and it would have easily looped if I hadn't backed out of it. I've never experienced anything on the 1199 that felt anything like wheelie control. Furthermore, when reviewing the DDA data from the track, there is clear TC intervention displayed on corner exits, but nothing at all when I know the front was picked up, like leaving the pits. I'm sure there are acclerometers, and they are most likely being used to compare wheel angular acceleration to bike acceleration to trigger the TC.

HarmonyJim said:

Gunny, my tech at the local Ducati shop says there is an accelerometer in the rear of the bike that acts as a device to dissuade any overly sudden acceleration such as the instigating of a wheelie, or violent acceleration that could lead to "instability". Is he mistaken? Is the device only designed to deal with lateral acceleration as used by the TC? What setting of the TC allows easy lifting of the front wheel? I have left mine on the default #4 setting (Race setting) and it never wants to lift the front end. Maybe I am not cranking on the throttle hard enough?

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Probably not.
I got lift, didn't think I was trying to hard, and yup up she came.
Only minor, but up in sport.

I think there is no Anti wheelie

Like Anti mentioned earlier in the thread, I believe TC essentially acts as a wheelie control, but there is no separate subset setting for wheelie control. In my experience lower level TC numbers enable wheelies to be performed, but higher levels restrict this by cutting throttle as the front wheel lifts.

You guys think a wheelie that long would hurt the motor ?? I have a 1198 sp and wheelie a lot not 12'o clock high but atleast 10'o clock high for 3/4 of a mile and I always worry I am hurting it !!! Can't help it ! I love wheelies , high ones , low ones any kind . Thanks

Picklesp said:

You guys think a wheelie that long would hurt the motor ?? I have a 1198 sp and wheelie a lot not 12'o clock high but atleast 10'o clock high for 3/4 of a mile and I always worry I am hurting it !!! Can't help it ! I love wheelies , high ones , low ones any kind . Thanks

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A bike isn't made to run at that angle for that long. There is always the potential problem of oil not getting to where it needs to because of the angle of the engine, you could be ruining your engine if you do it for too long. But for all I know the technology in engines these days may be able to over come that....but I definitely wouldn't take the risk.....if I wanted to wheelie for that long I'd get a stunt bike not a superbike made for the track.

Race mode, TC 3,
Ard - YouTube

Duck41 said:

Like Gunny mentioned earlier in the thread, I believe TC essentially acts as a wheelie control, but there is no separate subset setting for wheelie control. In my experience lower level TC numbers enable wheelies to be performed, but higher levels restrict this by cutting throttle as the front wheel lifts.

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I understand the concept you are talking about, but if that is true the bike would not carry the front end at all with TC turned on. It would drop the front very abruptly. Many traction control systems do not work on speed differential of the front and rear wheel. They operate based upon the rate of acceleration of the engine RPM's.

I really don't know exactly how the Panigale's TC works, but for those who like doing wheelies and are good at it, this should be easy to figure out. I am one of those chicken ..... that backs off if the wheel comes up too suddenly. I will carry one that comes up gradually and only gets a foot or so off the ground, but after that my reflexes kick in, so I'm not a good judge of how whether the bike has a wheelie control of sorts or not.

Sutki said:

Race mode, TC 3,
Ard - YouTube

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Oh my, Anneau ...

before that fast right kink is a nice spot to pass!!! most back out on it...

jjsC6 said:

I understand the concept you are talking about, but if that is true the bike would not carry the front end at all with TC turned on. It would drop the front very abruptly. Many traction control systems do not work on speed differential of the front and rear wheel. They operate based upon the rate of acceleration of the engine RPM's.

I really don't know exactly how the Panigale's TC works, but for those who like doing wheelies and are good at it, this should be easy to figure out. I am one of those chicken ..... that backs off if the wheel comes up too suddenly. I will carry one that comes up gradually and only gets a foot or so off the ground, but after that my reflexes kick in, so I'm not a good judge of how whether the bike has a wheelie control of sorts or not.

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Like you I am no wheelie master so unfortunately I'm not the best to intentionally test the limits either, but I believe the Panigale's DTC is primarily based off of wheel sensor speed data. Once perceived spin is detected based off wheel speed differential, either the ignition timing is delayed or, if necessary, the fuel injection is cut long enough to bring the differential back within the desired threshold relative to the selected traction control level. If my understanding of this process is correct, it wouldn't be an abrupt slam down, but more of a quick and gradual loss in torque similar to slightly rolling off the throttle.

Today, I went for a short ride up the mountain backroad. I picked up the front in 2nd, and held it up, below the balance point, all the way until I hit the rev limiter. I was definitely feathering the throttle to keep it where I wanted it, and there is no sensation of getting any "help" to control it. That said, I think the bike has some damn fine throttle control.

Like others have said, the 195HI is a much better fuel map, and I recommend switching to it as soon as you feel comfortable with the bike. Some of the roads I ride are quite rough, and even when I feel like I'm motocrossing it, I still prefer 195HI now.

-The motor responds much more cleanly and strong from lower RPM.
-The torque is immediate and linear - power wheelies are easy to invoke and control.
-You don't have to give it much throttle position to get what you need, which I find advantageous to keep your wrist in a good position while you are still hung off the bike, and also in situations where you need to roll on the gas while still covering the brake lever
-The bike tends to maintain speed, and feel eager to accelerate, where I almost find myself losing speed and the bike lazy when not paying attention in the 195LO mode.

Also owning a 13 ZX10R, the TC acts very differently on both bikes. The Pani TC wont prevent any power wheelie even in the more sensitive levels, but it works awesome in corners. On the Kawi, at the higher settings you wont be able to bring the front up, even trying to clutching it up! On the lower settings, the front will come up nicely before the TC intervenes and bring it back down very gently, only the exhaust rumble tells you that the TC is doing something. But when cornering, i find the Kawi TC lacks the transparency of the 1199 TC and intervenes just a bit too much in some situation.