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spooky said:
At what cost. Appeasement has never worked and Russians recognise it as weakness.

Bringing it back to Trump, don’t you think it’s rather odd to have Russia and the US deciding on the future of another country while trying to carve up its natural assets between them. This doesn’t make you feel somewhat uncomfortable? No moral issues with that hostile takeover and asset stripping?

Maybe Trump thinks Russia, China, etc are the future and he wants to align the US with them, but they are fundamentally different systems.
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Iraq 3.0? Pani doesn’t realize the corner that he’s painted himself into.
 
spooky said:
Appeasement has never worked and Russians recognise it as weakness.
Click to expand...

don't think its as black-and-white as that. People on both sides run businesses. Russians can't continue paying for this war forever and need a good exit liquidity. Trump by the looks of it, wants to be the one who stops the war but also wants some $$$ to go with it.

whatever has been discussed so far seems reasonable. Ukraine is not in the picture yes, but I guess this is why they call it a proxy war ?
spooky said:
and he wants to align the US with them,
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dont think so. more like to have an ally against China? no idea, here.
 
panibadboy said:
don't think its as black-and-white as that. People on both sides run businesses. Russians can't continue paying for this war forever and need a good exit liquidity. Trump by the looks of it, wants to be the one who stops the war but also wants some $$$ to go with it.

whatever has been discussed so far seems reasonable. Ukraine is not in the picture yes, but I guess this is why they call it a proxy war ?


dont think so. more like to have an ally against China? no idea, here.
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Fat Donnie owes Putin. Russia cannot be an empire without the breadbasket that is Ukraine. In the future as climate change shrinks the grain latitudes abilities to produce this will be way more important. Putin will never stop. If they do come up with some sort of deal he'll just wait, rearm and come again. I have wondered for a while now if Putin has a fatal illness with a long time constant.
 
spooky said:
The man is a war criminal. And then after causing all that chaos in the Middle East (with the US) he has the nerve to become a peace envoy to the Middle East. You couldn’t make it up… Bringing this stuff up is pretty much ‘whataboutism’ though and doesn’t justify or excuse what’s happening.

In all of these situations I blame the aggressor - Blair and the US in Iraq, Cameron off to Libya to ruin the place and remove Gadaffi, and Putin invading Ukraine (and meddling in loads of other places). I don’t care if it’s the East or West, ‘democracies’ or whatever. It goes on and on and on… How many days of peace in the last 2,000 years? Three? Four? What an utterly hopeless species.

Underlying all of this, and what most of these conversations ignore, are real people and families who simply want to live their lives. Ukrainians are no more inherently corrupt than anyone else - they simply had the misfortune to be born into a corrupt system in which they need to survive. You play the hand you are dealt. They deserve a new deck.

It’s easy to judge from the comfort of where we happen to have been born, but most people have simple needs for their lives and if they earn enough through honest means to pay their bills and raise their families then they generally don’t feel the need to do anything beyond that. Keep people down and you get corruption through necessity (rather than corruption through greed).
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I guess you're right on all accounts. As you say it's easy to judge from the comfort of where we happened to have been born.
 

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