FREE Suspension Setup advice from an expert

[roadracerx]

I have found in life that you generally get what you pay for...my aim is to give something worth a lot away for FREE - on this forum. In person tuning is a different story... I am posting this thread to give back and to help people because I read through some of these threads and I routinely see information that is not accurate.

On this thread I will answer questions to help sort out your 848/1098/1198 and all Panigale setup basics and/or issues you may have.

I have been setting up bikes for 20 years for all sorts of riders and I have been very successful in doing so. I started down the path of learning how to do pretty much everything on my own because I didn't want to have to rely on others to fix my bike and I don't want flat rate mechanics who don't care about my safety cutting corners; I have experienced both situations more than once.

I have learned from folks like Dave Moss and David Behrend and setup supermoto, motocross, flat track, mini motard, road race and street bike

I am a WERA and AFM racer with top 5 finishes in expert superstock/superbike classes on bikes that I build from scratch and I even won some championships on Ducati when I was a younger man.

I am starting this thread to help so let's get to work...

 

[louis041]

I have a Ducati 959 with stock front forks and rear shock. I am 185 pounds and have not touched my suspension since the dealer set it up.

Most of my riding occurs on the street with 3-5 track days per year. Overall tire wear has been pretty even and smooth on the track (can post pick). Front end feels a little vague going into slow corners, overall corner exit feels good.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[roadracerx]

@louis041, nice to meet you. What tires and pressures are you running? Are you 185 lbs with or without gear? Do you know what the dealer did when they set it up? Most dealers don't touch the bike so if your dealer did some things you might be ahead Have you set bike/rider sag? If you do not know what that is, no problem, I am happy to explain here. Tank soon.

 

[louis041]

@louis041, nice to meet you. What tires and pressures are you running? Are you 185 lbs with or without gear? Do you know what the dealer did when they set it up? Most dealers don't touch the bike so if your dealer did some things you might be ahead Have you set bike/rider sag? If you do not know what that is, no problem, I am happy to explain here. Tank soon.

I'm running Pirelli track day tire front and rear, on street tire pressure front and rear is 32. On track I run 30 front 28 rear hot off the warmers.

185 without gear, as far as dealer set-up they asked me my weight when I bought it. Didn't have me sit on the bike so might not of touched it at all.

I have not done sag measurements but I can this weekend. There's a good motorcyclist magazine video on it.

Louis

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[roadracerx]

@louis041, ok so I recommend 40 mm front and 30 mm rear rider sag. Bike sag should be about 25 mm front and 12-15 mm rear. Remember to take the average between measurements of you sitting on the bike with the suspension compressed and released slowly and suspension lifted and released slowly.

RaceTech explains this here

Your pressures are a bit off. Try the following....

Street pressures for Pirelli SP/TD: set at 32 PSI front and 28 rear COLD

Track pressures for Pirelli SP/TD: set at 32 PSI front COLD or 34 PSI hot off the warmer, set rear at 25 PSI COLD or 28 PSI HOT off the warmer. When you come in from your session IMMEDIATELY check the rear. It will likely be above 28, bring it back down to 28. After the next session check it again and repeat this process until the pressure does not go above 28 PSI HOT OFF THE TRACK.

Generally, most riders do not brake hard enough to generate enough tire flex to raise the pressure more than 1 PSI so you really don't need to worry about front pressure once you set it in the AM.

Here is some Pirelli info

 

[louis041]

I'll give it a shot and see how she feels

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

[wortdog]

Thanks for volunteering

I've got a salvage auction V4S that I've turned into a trackbike. A while back I did a shakedown trackday at a slower pace to feel the bike. I set sag to 37mm front 28mm rear. I left everything stock with the exception of Pirelli TD tires(34 front 27 rear off the warmers) in place of the SPv3 tires. I weigh 192lbs without gear.

I had two suspension issues. I was blowing through the fork travel until I added two turns of preload and took the front compression setting to 3 'turns out' in the fixed settings. The bike also required quite a bit of pressure to initiate turns, which isn't surprising given the 16mm diameter difference between a 200/55 TD and a 200/60 SPv3.

I'm heading to the track again this weekend and have made a couple of changes that I think will help out. First change was to the forks, bumped up to 10w oil and the level is set at 170mm vs stock 230mm. I'm hoping this pushes me more towards the middle of the compression adjustment.

In the rear, I lengthened the shock from 312mm to 317mm in order to compensate for the 8mm difference in rear ride height from the shorter 200/55 TD.

I'm hoping these changes make sense, as changing them at the track is a bit of a pain.

 

[rja4z3]

@louis041, ok so I recommend 40 mm front and 30 mm rear rider sag. Bike sag should be about 25 mm front and 12-15 mm rear. Remember to take the average between measurements of you sitting on the bike with the suspension compressed and released slowly and suspension lifted and released slowly.

RaceTech explains this here

Your pressures are a bit off. Try the following....

Street pressures for Pirelli SP/TD: set at 32 PSI front and 28 rear COLD

Track pressures for Pirelli SP/TD: set at 32 PSI front COLD or 34 PSI hot off the warmer, set rear at 25 PSI COLD or 28 PSI HOT off the warmer. When you come in from your session IMMEDIATELY check the rear. It will likely be above 28, bring it back down to 28. After the next session check it again and repeat this process until the pressure does not go above 28 PSI HOT OFF THE TRACK.

Generally, most riders do not brake hard enough to generate enough tire flex to raise the pressure more than 1 PSI so you really don't need to worry about front pressure once you set it in the AM.

Here is some Pirelli info

Thanks for starting this thread! What's your reasoning behind 40mm front/30mm rear rider sag? Would you recommend that for a trackbike?

 

[007]

That's very noble of you, you're a gentleman.

I'll have two bikes to ask about,

Bike 1 - Panigale 1299, standard suspension, only used for the road.
Rider weight- 240 odd pounds.

 

[RODOLFO]

Thanks for offering to help, this lost souls

Here is my question

I have a V4S

180 lbs with gear

I ride slow to medium expert pace



Was having trouble with the front coming up really easily, and front headshake

Dialed 3 turns of preload on the back, and this helped a ton.

Just wanted to confirm with you, if this was the right route to take.


Next I plan on putting 2 turns of preload on the front to prevent diving during hard braking

What are your thoughts

 

[roadracerx]

Thanks for volunteering

I've got a salvage auction V4S that I've turned into a trackbike. A while back I did a shakedown trackday at a slower pace to feel the bike. I set sag to 37mm front 28mm rear. I left everything stock with the exception of Pirelli TD tires(34 front 27 rear off the warmers) in place of the SPv3 tires. I weigh 192lbs without gear.

I had two suspension issues. I was blowing through the fork travel until I added two turns of preload and took the front compression setting to 3 'turns out' in the fixed settings. The bike also required quite a bit of pressure to initiate turns, which isn't surprising given the 16mm diameter difference between a 200/55 TD and a 200/60 SPv3.

I'm heading to the track again this weekend and have made a couple of changes that I think will help out. First change was to the forks, bumped up to 10w oil and the level is set at 170mm vs stock 230mm. I'm hoping this pushes me more towards the middle of the compression adjustment.

In the rear, I lengthened the shock from 312mm to 317mm in order to compensate for the 8mm difference in rear ride height from the shorter 200/55 TD.

I'm hoping these changes make sense, as changing them at the track is a bit of a pain.

I am happy to see that you realized there IS a difference between the diameter(s) for the V3 vs. 200/55 TD. 7.5 mm is the actual difference in radius....we are not worried about diameter because we are only dealing with the height from the axle out.

The oil weight and height are interesting and I would like to hear how you like it.

If you are using one, how far from the bottom of the fork is your travel indicator? I think you mean 3 clicks out with respect to your suspension settings....seems like this is the opposite of what you are thinking....have you pushed on the bike to see what the compression feels like and is this balanced with the rear? How is your tire wear.

Pressures seem fine.

 

[roadracerx]

Thanks for starting this thread! What's your reasoning behind 40mm front/30mm rear rider sag? Would you recommend that for a trackbike?

Yes, I would and do. The idea behind 40 mm front sag and 30 mm rear sag recommendation is two-fold....

1.) Those sag numbers put the suspension in the middle third of the stroke at say riding at constant throttle at a fixed speed with the rider on the bike which is ideal.

2.) Ohlins generally recommends these numbers.

Once proper sag is set it does not mean the geometry of the bike is perfect, that is a different setting/issue to solve but when starting with these generally acceptable sag numbers I can zero in on other issues.

 

[roadracerx]

That's very noble of you, you're a gentleman.

I'll have two bikes to ask about,

Bike 1 - Panigale 1299, standard suspension, only used for the road.
Rider weight- 240 odd pounds.

Do you have the S model with Ohlins?

SPRINGS my friend. There isn't much you can expect from the stock springs which are meant for 175-195 lbs rider. You will need at least at set of 11.0 N/m springs in the front and a 110 N/m rear spring. If you can get your hands on a flat rate linkage the bottom eye needs changed and one rate up on the spring to 115.

Set the sag to 40 mm rider front and 30 mm rider rear. This will put you in the ball park.

 

[roadracerx]

Thanks for offering to help, this lost souls

Here is my question
I have a V4S
180 lbs with gear
I ride slow to medium expert pace

Was having trouble with the front coming up really easily, and front headshake

Dialed 3 turns of preload on the back, and this helped a ton.
Just wanted to confirm with you, if this was the right route to take.
Next I plan on putting 2 turns of preload on the front to prevent diving during hard braking

What are your thoughts

Hi Rodolfo, when you say the front coming up easily....do you mean wheelies or the front rises quickly between gear shifts?

Where are your suspension settings? Are you running dynamic, fixed?

Where is your bike and rider sag after your changes?

 

[RODOLFO]

Hi Rodolfo, when you say the front coming up easily....do you mean wheelies or the front rises quickly between gear shifts?

Where are your suspension settings? Are you running dynamic, fixed?

Where is your bike and rider sag after your changes?

About the front rising,

It used to wheelie really easily

And after every shift the front would get light and headshacke 3/4 or 1/2 of the straight

After the 3 preload turns on the back, from stock

It stopped, now I can drive off corners and just get very light headshake on straight


But I have to check on the sag, to see were it finished at


Just wanted to ask, as some people are doing exactly the opposite, taking all the preload out of the shock

But adding preload help me fix the problem, in my case

 

[roadracerx]

About the front rising,
Just wanted to ask, as some people are doing exactly the opposite, taking all the preload out of the shock

This is a VERY bad idea. The spring NEEDS at least 10 mm of installed preload. think about extension....if the installed preload on the spring is at 0 mm that means the shock can't extend properly like when you brake hard or come over a rise/hill on track or road for that matter.

Check that sag both rider and bike (static) front and rear and let me know where you are.....remember, check it with your gear.

 

[RODOLFO]

This is a VERY bad idea. The spring NEEDS at least 10 mm of installed preload. think about extension....if the installed preload on the spring is at 0 mm that means the shock can't extend properly like when you brake hard or come over a rise/hill on track or road for that matter.

Check that sag both rider and bike (static) front and rear and let me know where you are.....remember, check it with your gear.

Thanks man

That is exactly what I thought

Putting more preload on the rear worked wonders for me, just needed some confirmation, as many people were recommending the opposite

Will check sag, and report back

Thanks again

 

[shigeru]

Thank you for this! I am copying and pasting this from your V4R track build thread. I am running pretty much the same settings except for shock length (OEM height). I do have the newer Ohlins rear MKII with the remote preload.

My feel is that the front wants to tuck when turning. I experienced this at Chuckwalla twice. I also have a 2017 GSX-R1000 track bike so I am able to compare. I am running Dunlop slicks on the Suzuki. Any advice?

33 PSI front, 26 PSI rear for track use. I leave the front alone but I check the rear and if the pressure rises above 29 PSI hot, directly off the track then I bring it back down to 29 PSI and check again after the next session. I repeat this process with the rear until the pressure stabilizes.

Fork
Rebound: 12
Compression: 12
Ride height: OEM
Spring: 10 N/mm
Preload: (5 mm stock) should be set where rider sag is 40 mm, bike sag should be roughly 20-25 mm **
Model: FL954
Spec: R2/C104 - NIX30/FKR
Stroke: 130 mm
Notes: compression side is same valving as MotoAmerica FKR $2400 Supersport/Stock 1000 insert - very good at resisting bottoming without deflecting or feeling too stiff. Can generally run 1/2 rate lighter springs BUT wings provide up 60+ lbs down force at close to 170 mph so spring rate was left alone.

Shock
Rebound: 13
Compression: 8
Ride height: 315 mm ****
Spring rate: 105 N/mm
Preload: (12 mm) should be set where rider sag is 30 mm, bike sag should be roughly 10-15 mm **
Model: DU468
Stroke: 65 mm

Swingarm length: 597 mm

Swingarm pivot Zero ('-3') setting (as delivered) is actually 1 mm HIGHER than all other V4 models.

Tires
Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa SP V3 120/70-17 (stock front tire): 302 mm
Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa SP V3 200/60-17 (stock rear tire): 336 mm

 

[roadracerx]

@shigeru - what exactly is your question about, the GSX-R1000 or the V4R?

 

[shigeru]

@shigeru - what exactly is your question about, the GSX-R1000 or the V4R?

Sorry, was doing this at work and was in a hurry. I was asking about the V4R feeling the front tucking.