23 V4R Loosing Oil…… Some Oil Found in Airbox

VYRUS said:

This oil level topic is becoming much more common. It's closely related to the oil some owners are finding in the air intake. I would like to say everyone is making this harder than it should be, but it's actually made harder because of so many half truths & straight out lies told by government regulators, manufactures, & oil companies. I would like to avoid getting overly technical, & stick to the most important information that's the most helpful.
Some of you say you're using Motul 300V oil. Which 300V? In order to comply with the current fuel economy regulations, Motul has reformulated many of the oils in their 300V line up. Viscosity is extremely important. Which viscosity are you using, & what's your ambient temperature? For the sake of simplicity, if you prefer Motul 300V, use the 15W/60 Off-road racing motorcycle oil. Change it every 1,000 miles or sooner. One problem you're having is oil foaming. At high RPM's your current oil is full of air bubbles. This is also why you can't seem to find the correct level. It can take 24 hours for all the air bubbles to exit the oil. If you've done some high speed riding & shut the engine off, the oil level will appear to high for at least 24 hours. You don't want oil that's full of air bubbles.
Your engines are the most demanding by any manufacture. You can't use Car oil. The design of high performance motorcycle engines act like a meat grinder on the oil inside. The chemical properties are quickly diminished in these oils. In less than 1,000 miles most of what are called "long chain polymers", are badly degraded. No oil can withstand the oil change intervals manufactures tell owners. Why do you think Ducati says their most expensive race oil that cost $60 per quart, must be changed every 600 miles?
The only other oil I've found that's actually capable of withstanding the stress of these engines, is Red Line "Power Sports" line. On really hot days with high speed riding, 20W/60 is the best choice. At normal Summer ambient temperatures, 10W/50 is the better choice. But it must be their Power Sports line. You still need to change it every 1,000 miles or less.
I've left out a mountain of important technical information so as to quickly get to the point. Understanding the details in the technical information is what eliminates all of the other popular oils from this very short list. These 2 oils do not foam. You can get an accurate oil level within 15 minutes of the engine off.

Click to expand...

panibadboy said:

What you life is a pile of .... to be honest. Zero useful information

Click to expand...

VYRUS said:

This oil level topic is becoming much more common. It's closely related to the oil some owners are finding in the air intake. I would like to say everyone is making this harder than it should be, but it's actually made harder because of so many half truths & straight out lies told by government regulators, manufactures, & oil companies. I would like to avoid getting overly technical, & stick to the most important information that's the most helpful.
Some of you say you're using Motul 300V oil. Which 300V? In order to comply with the current fuel economy regulations, Motul has reformulated many of the oils in their 300V line up. Viscosity is extremely important. Which viscosity are you using, & what's your ambient temperature? For the sake of simplicity, if you prefer Motul 300V, use the 15W/60 Off-road racing motorcycle oil. Change it every 1,000 miles or sooner. One problem you're having is oil foaming. At high RPM's your current oil is full of air bubbles. This is also why you can't seem to find the correct level. It can take 24 hours for all the air bubbles to exit the oil. If you've done some high speed riding & shut the engine off, the oil level will appear to high for at least 24 hours. You don't want oil that's full of air bubbles.
Your engines are the most demanding by any manufacture. You can't use Car oil. The design of high performance motorcycle engines act like a meat grinder on the oil inside. The chemical properties are quickly diminished in these oils. In less than 1,000 miles most of what are called "long chain polymers", are badly degraded. No oil can withstand the oil change intervals manufactures tell owners. Why do you think Ducati says their most expensive race oil that cost $60 per quart, must be changed every 600 miles?
The only other oil I've found that's actually capable of withstanding the stress of these engines, is Red Line "Power Sports" line. On really hot days with high speed riding, 20W/60 is the best choice. At normal Summer ambient temperatures, 10W/50 is the better choice. But it must be their Power Sports line. You still need to change it every 1,000 miles or less.
I've left out a mountain of important technical information so as to quickly get to the point. Understanding the details in the technical information is what eliminates all of the other popular oils from this very short list. These 2 oils do not foam. You can get an accurate oil level within 15 minutes of the engine off.

Click to expand...

VYRUS said:

I've left out a mountain of important technical information so as to quickly get to the point. Understanding the details in the technical information is what eliminates all of the other popular oils from this very short list. These 2 oils do not foam. You can get an accurate oil level within 15 minutes of the engine off.

Click to expand...

bp_SFV4 said:

More spergy ......... Touch grass.

Click to expand...

panibadboy said:

stop being salty old man

Click to expand...

bp_SFV4 said:

Stop being a douche kid and double your dose.

Click to expand...

SuperDomestique said:

I do 15W50 300V. From my service notes, I’m changing it every 1000 mi or 3ish trackdays.

How’re you determining “ the chemical properties are quickly diminished in these oils?”

Click to expand...

shade said:

You are a complete moron.
My 500hp busa runs on mobile 1 10/40.
It sees more stress than my ducati ever will.
3k mile oil change sent in for analysis and was still good.

Click to expand...

panibadboy said:

What's the latest?

Click to expand...

VYRUS said:

Since you asked. I avoid extremely technical answers, because most people don't really want this level of detail. Most people want a simple answer to a complicate subject. I'm not referring to you. What follows is the technical answer to your question, and the original question that started this discussion.

While it’s widely known that oil-based lubricants are less viscous at higher temperatures and more viscous at lower temperatures, calculating a precise viscosity presents a formidable challenge. Lubricant viscosity, temperature and operating conditions all interact in complex ways, some of which are poorly understood. For example, thicker lubricant films keep contacting parts well separated, but they also can increase friction and drag. Which increases temperature at the contact area. Which thins the lubricant film. Another factor in high performance motorcycle engines is the use of straight cut gears and timing chains. These mechanical forces are well known for quickly degrading the molecular polymers required for multi viscosity lubricants. One method of determining the speed of this degradation is the ASTM D341 test. D341 uses the "Walther equation" to calculate the degradation of oil viscosity. ASTM D2270 test the VI (viscosity index). This test method was established over 90 years ago. ASTM D2270 indicates the degree to which an oil’s viscosity changes (reverts to the mean) over a range of temperatures. For example, the oil might start out as 10W/60. But depending on the chemical design and the quality of the chemicals, the viscosity quickly shears down to 30W in as little as 500 miles. Quality matters. The “VI” value found on the oil’s Product Data Sheet (PDS) indicates how well the oil can maintain its original viscosity range.

The properties of long-chain polymer additives can affect shear thinning. The shear rate at which thinning begins is inversely proportional to a molecule's size. Longer polymer molecules (10w/60) start to shear the quickest. Shear rates are significant for oils that contain polymers because shear stretches and breaks the polymer chains.

The higher the “VI”, the better the oil. The very best oils have a VI of approximately 185 to 190.
If you really want to read pier reviewed publications about lubrication, see "Tribology Letters" at springer.com. This is the industry standard devoted to the development of the science of tribology and its applications. This is where actual Petroleum Engineers focus on publishing high-quality papers at the forefront of tribological science, that address the fundamentals of friction, lubrication, wear, and adhesion. The journal facilitates communication and exchange of seminal ideas among thousands of pier reviewed practitioners engaged worldwide in the pursuit of tribology-based science and technology. This is where you’ll find articles published by Mr 500hp busa.

Click to expand...

SuperDomestique said:

I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s aeration issues with these engines

Click to expand...

SirJAG said:

I just wish i had good feeling about 300V...used and replaced every 1500-2500mi and before each track day...still toasted two motors...

the shell oil just turns nasty BLACK so quickly...really loved the green and clean of Motul...

JAG

Click to expand...

panibadboy said:

Motul turns nasty black after 6-8 days on track easily

Click to expand...

panibadboy said:

Motul turns nasty black after 6-8 days on track easily

Click to expand...

baggerman said:

I actually think that is not the case. These have well designed scavenging and good windage control. That being said do not overfill these, if the oil level is high enough that it's above the cast windage wrap around the crank they will totally froth the oil.

Click to expand...

SuperDomestique said:

Aeration would explain all the problems w oil in the airbox

Click to expand...