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Beta testing on customers. Cool. Cool.
23 V4R Loosing Oil…… Some Oil Found in Airbox
- Thread starter KA77
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Since I own a 23 v4r, and have done a few track days with my third engine, this is my experience. My first engine had a cylinder misfire error within first 150miles of riding and was replaced under warranty.
When my second engine was installed, the airbox was not sealed properly. Airleak testing confirmed this. Due to this, there were dirt going into the airbox which messed up the piston rings. For the third engine, they changed airbox, sealed it and tested it first before installing the third engine, changed the cyclone seperator and pump, and replaced the sprint p08 street filter with BMC. so far completex 3 track days and 1.5k miles on it. Zero issues now.
When my second engine was installed, the airbox was not sealed properly. Airleak testing confirmed this. Due to this, there were dirt going into the airbox which messed up the piston rings. For the third engine, they changed airbox, sealed it and tested it first before installing the third engine, changed the cyclone seperator and pump, and replaced the sprint p08 street filter with BMC. so far completex 3 track days and 1.5k miles on it. Zero issues now.
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Happy days! Glad you're enjoying it
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So I’ve just got back from 3 glorious December days at Portimao. The bike was faultless throughout (accept some handling issues that we are ironing out)
Anyhow, got the bike home and in the garage for a strip down, clean and torque check before it heads to MotoRapido in the new year for annual service. Having stripped the fairings, I have found several apparent leaks on the power plant. Both the cylinder head rocker covers are leaking, which is common I hear and no real issue to sort. What’s more concerning is the fact I’ve now located leaks on the inlet side of both cylinders. It seems like the oil is coming out the flanges between the throttle bodies / air box and where it bolts to the inlet side of each cylinder. There are multiple leaks it seems, but it’s hard to see clearly as they are right in the guts of the engine. MR are aware and are going to sort when it’s in for service.
Anyhow, got the bike home and in the garage for a strip down, clean and torque check before it heads to MotoRapido in the new year for annual service. Having stripped the fairings, I have found several apparent leaks on the power plant. Both the cylinder head rocker covers are leaking, which is common I hear and no real issue to sort. What’s more concerning is the fact I’ve now located leaks on the inlet side of both cylinders. It seems like the oil is coming out the flanges between the throttle bodies / air box and where it bolts to the inlet side of each cylinder. There are multiple leaks it seems, but it’s hard to see clearly as they are right in the guts of the engine. MR are aware and are going to sort when it’s in for service.
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Seems to be from around the same place (rear-left corner area of rear cylinders) that mine went.
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On the rear cylinder rocker cover ? Yes, so it seems. Also leaks on the front cylinder bank rocker cover and around the inlet flanges of both banks of cylinders, where the air box bolts to the heads.
And to think that my local dealer couldn’t be bothered to investigate properly, even after I told them its using oil and sent them images showing oil in the air box.
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It’s quite bad that they were prepared to let it continue.
I was at the track when mine happened and I sent pictures to my local dealer and the dealer in Germany that I bought the bike from. My local dealer never responded (even though I could see that he had read the message and seen the pictures), whereas the German dealer immediately replied and said do not ride it, get it to them immediately and they will investigate. They told me that they had seen this before and so I guess they pretty much knew what the problem was and what needed to be done as soon as they saw the pictures. I went directly from the track to the dealer and they sorted it within one week under guarantee, which was good considering they had a workshop full of bikes in for service, etc.
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TBF, I have since approached MotoRapido and they have been great, responded to emails quickly, haven’t tried to fob me off with excuses about ‘this bike should use oil’ and have booked me in at short notice to get it looked at. Hopefully it will get resolved quickly in January and be back to me in time for Jerez in early March.
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Bit of an update….
Took the bike to MotoRapido last Friday and I have to say, what a breath of fresh air they are! Nick the workshop manager was incredibly professional and helpful, as were all the staff I bumped into while there.
They had a really good look at the bike and after speaking to Ducati UK, it was agreed that the rocker covers and inlet flange seals would be replaced under warranty, no problem.
They’ve also weighed in new oil and sealed the engine so I can go to Jerez for 3 days. When I get back they will drain it out and weigh it again to establish if further work is needed.
While there Wilf the owner (for those that don’t know is also the crew chief for a BSB team running V4R & V2) He mentioned that they run their bikes on the minimum oil mark, never any higher, and that’s what he would advise we do in my case, to see how it goes. He stayed chatting to me for ages, he’s very technically minded and his knowledge of bike set up, geometry, gearing telemetry and data etc. was incredible, I could have stayed for hours!!
I’m much happier now after going to see these guys and feel reassured that they are taking the issue seriously. Let’s see what happens.
Took the bike to MotoRapido last Friday and I have to say, what a breath of fresh air they are! Nick the workshop manager was incredibly professional and helpful, as were all the staff I bumped into while there.
They had a really good look at the bike and after speaking to Ducati UK, it was agreed that the rocker covers and inlet flange seals would be replaced under warranty, no problem.
They’ve also weighed in new oil and sealed the engine so I can go to Jerez for 3 days. When I get back they will drain it out and weigh it again to establish if further work is needed.
While there Wilf the owner (for those that don’t know is also the crew chief for a BSB team running V4R & V2) He mentioned that they run their bikes on the minimum oil mark, never any higher, and that’s what he would advise we do in my case, to see how it goes. He stayed chatting to me for ages, he’s very technically minded and his knowledge of bike set up, geometry, gearing telemetry and data etc. was incredible, I could have stayed for hours!!
I’m much happier now after going to see these guys and feel reassured that they are taking the issue seriously. Let’s see what happens.
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I’ve heard this from my dealer about running it at minimum oil level for track use as well. Did they give you an explanation as to why? When I asked why, they didn’t really have a reason a solid reason (at least I can’t recall).
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that's how Barni runs it too. The precise level tbf would depend on oil quality but most of the time its near the lower level
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He didn’t go into great detail on that subject (I was too keen to talk about handling set up TBF). He did say that it gives the engine better ability to breathe (assume related to crankcase pressures?) He also mentioned that the oil pick up is located right at the bottom of the sump and therefore running a low oil level is not an unnecessary risk.
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Interesting. These crankcases are sealed each as a twin with the only exit for the oil into the sump is thru the main scavenge section (one per cylinder pair) or in the case of the heads thru their own individual scavenge sections. Everything related to pumping losses is in a sealed twin pumping back and forth. The cranks have windage scrappers for the tapered counterweights. The amount of oil remaining in the crankcase bottom (and the internal pressure) of each of the running twin pairs is totally dependent on oil pump performance. You're lowering the oil level to put more air volume in lower sump and gearbox.
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Finish this train of thought partner...what is the effect of more air volume? I also run my V4 at the 1/2 way point or just below that, as I too am sensitive about oil in airbox!
Jag
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When the oil is all drained into sump (like it's sat overnight) the distance from the top of the oil mid sight glass to the bottom of the enclosed crankcase is about 2 inches. Then you start it and put 1/2 liter (?) into each head. If the oil separator is letting oil into the airbox the separator is inadequate (which they are. I bet they redesigned these too on the 25). If not I'm going to modify the my stock one probably by sawing in from the side a couple of places and adding some 2/3ish diameter baffles towards the top (it's a funnel shaped thing the volume is increasing upwards in the hopes it will be slow the air enough, be cyclonic and drop the oil out) opposite each other across say a 1/2 inch (I need the part in my hand and haven't looked at it in about a year). I think 3 should be enough. Need to force the air to turn the oil won't turn. Applying vacuum to the crankcase is a good thing, the more the better IMHO (helps the seals, helps the pump scavenge etc.).
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