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Is it me,..... reading between the lines of some of these reviews (alan cathcart/ben cope)....that the new engine hasn't got the punch of the 1198 off the bottom end.
1198 vs 1199 engine
- Thread starter barry bubbles
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Seems Ducati tuned out some of the twin'ness, but thats a good thing - no?
You can see from the track vids that it still has more than enough low-down stomp to send the DTC light into a frenzy, so any trade for top-end rush has gotta make it a better bike.
Read somewhere you could be fooled into thinking it was a v4.
You can see from the track vids that it still has more than enough low-down stomp to send the DTC light into a frenzy, so any trade for top-end rush has gotta make it a better bike.
Read somewhere you could be fooled into thinking it was a v4.
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....will be more relavant and interesting to see how the 1199 is on the roads...
....and in comparision to a 1198 !
....and in comparision to a 1198 !
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this is the right direction to make the bike faster, as it make the power more usable. but i would imagine this would piss off alot of Duc lovers. the old bike couldnt properly put the power to the ground, hence it loses to the I4 on the drag race (any comparison test on MotoUSA can prove this). we'll see how this one fare against the competitors in the near future
No question it'll be a revvier motor, but they had to give up some on the bottom to get that big run on the top. Reading the comments about the power delivery reminded me of an interview I read recently with Honda MotoGP's Nakamoto-San. He said the difference with the new 1000's vs the 800's was mostly on the top end, since they already had to electronically reduce power on the 800's in the 1st three gears to keep 'em hooked up. Stoner sort of echoed that when he said the big thing was the 1000 kept accelerating on top when the 800 tapered off.
Just check out the onboard's of the 1199; even at fairly low revs the TC light is lighting up off of just about every corner, so it's got enough. Bit reminiscent of the '08 Fireblade I had too, pretty soft at the lowest revs versus some other liter bikes, but once you hit around 4500 it launched into a stomping midrange. Power where you need it, but not where you don't.
Just check out the onboard's of the 1199; even at fairly low revs the TC light is lighting up off of just about every corner, so it's got enough. Bit reminiscent of the '08 Fireblade I had too, pretty soft at the lowest revs versus some other liter bikes, but once you hit around 4500 it launched into a stomping midrange. Power where you need it, but not where you don't.
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I suspect,...and say this without testing back to back .....and lets remember this part!
The 1199 will be better on track !
However (and check the TORQUE dyno comparisons of the two bikes)...the 1199 shifts the torque,as well as the power,...up the rev range by about 1000rpm...
I think where it may lack compared to the 1198 is in a few senarios ie,
...when your in 5/6 gear at about 70 ish and want to overtake...don't think it will have as much torque to fire you as quick.
also,...being in slightly the wrong gear exiting a corner and winding it on...may not be as punchy.
This is more real world ROAD riding as apposed to track days etc, especially on longer more open cornered circuits where upper midrange and top end are more used.
The 1199 will be better on track !
However (and check the TORQUE dyno comparisons of the two bikes)...the 1199 shifts the torque,as well as the power,...up the rev range by about 1000rpm...
I think where it may lack compared to the 1198 is in a few senarios ie,
...when your in 5/6 gear at about 70 ish and want to overtake...don't think it will have as much torque to fire you as quick.
also,...being in slightly the wrong gear exiting a corner and winding it on...may not be as punchy.
This is more real world ROAD riding as apposed to track days etc, especially on longer more open cornered circuits where upper midrange and top end are more used.
See this thread: http://ducati1199.com/ducati-1199/223-1198-v-1199-dyno-figures.html
Making the assumption that those curves are right, the crank HP curve lags about 600 rpm or so at worst (6600rpm vs 7200rpm +/- to hit 110hp 1198 vs 1199), generally less, and the 1199 is geared lower and tighter to compensate. So at a given ground speed the 1199's spinning up more. No doubt however, that if you twist the grip at say, 6000 rpm in any gear, the 1198 will have more grunt. In X gear at Y speed, that's another story.
Making the assumption that those curves are right, the crank HP curve lags about 600 rpm or so at worst (6600rpm vs 7200rpm +/- to hit 110hp 1198 vs 1199), generally less, and the 1199 is geared lower and tighter to compensate. So at a given ground speed the 1199's spinning up more. No doubt however, that if you twist the grip at say, 6000 rpm in any gear, the 1198 will have more grunt. In X gear at Y speed, that's another story.
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Yup, added to which the 1199 is also much lighter.
Basically, I'll eat my hat if it leaves me wanting more power/torque on the road
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....the starting thread refered to TORQUE lower down the RPM not power !
We've got sidetracked on power people !
We've got sidetracked on power people !
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Not to be a smart ass, but Torque is a measure of Power. HP is also a measure of Power, but incorporates time.
I think the actual Torque/Power might feel less, but actually be similar. The sensation of bigger top end power always makes the lower end feel less to me. But when there is very little top end, then all that down low power feels great.
As already stated, the bike rev's higher and is geared to take advantage of the this. Higher RPM per given speed on 1199 compared to 1198. This higher RPM will make it have similar or greater power for same rate of speed, even though the engine will be turning faster to produce it, especially down low in the RPM range.
Chris
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I think what we have here is such an extremely refined twin it has closed the gap between the characteristics of a twin verses an inline 4. basically Ducati are going to make a lot of sales here from converts who now want to try a Ducati for the first time as there will be less of a transition from what they know. Its a bit like riding a 998 then getting on a 1198. To be honest I prefer the 998 as it's just more exciting but the 1198 is a better more refined bike...I suspect the 1199 has just taken it to another level.
I will be getting a 1199 eventually but I'm more inclined to keep the 1198 also now.
I will be getting a 1199 eventually but I'm more inclined to keep the 1198 also now.
Bingo - as Ben Cope noted in his excellent writeup @ Visordown (since edited to read a bit differently), it does sit in the gap between what we traditionally thought twins and fours were supposed to be like. Where the R1 was an I-4 that had some of the characteristics of a twin, the 1199 is a twin that has some of the feel of an I-4.
They've definitely created a new kind of Ducati, the first without direct mechanical ties to the past in ages, and one that will have broader appeal to those who haven't owned a Duc before. But one that will alienate some of their current customer base who have grown to love the previous generations' specific characteristics and idiosyncracies; all the more reason to own more than one...
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thread resurrection week
congrats on the bike.
wait 'til you're over 10k the first time
congrats on the bike.
wait 'til you're over 10k the first time
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