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This thread brings to mind this.....
a bad workman always blames his tools - Wiktionary
No idea why....
a bad workman always blames his tools - Wiktionary
No idea why....
1199 Panigale w/ Trellis Frame!!!!!
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Then the same can not be said in Moto GP, (prior to the frame change) most of those crashes (stoner and Hayden) we're low sides.
Hayden was even quoted, but then had to recant that he wanted to go back to the monocoque design as the perimeter frame changed nothing about feel.
Just saying, how much can a frame flex in the middle where the engine sits? Most flex should be at the ends, i.e., the head stock and swing arm pivot point.
From the crashes I've seen, in person and on the forum, they seem to hold together, Other than a small bursting into flames issue.
Interesting that Ducati are going the opposite direction with the Uber-Pani SL, with a magnesium airbox/headstock that will of necessity be even more rigid than the AL one. Just the nature of the material.
Checa, et al, have also gone on record saying that handling was not their problem and that their splits in twisty sections were good; power and tire wear on the other hand were the issues. The Superstock Pani's do look busy though, even if they are much more competitive in class than in WSBK. I'd expect the rigid chassis structure just places more importance on getting the suspension and center of mass just right so the tire loading/unloading is optimized. Most engineers would say that's good; isolate the issues to one area so you are working on one thing rather than a much more complex system of interdependent parts. And as Ducati's MotoGP experience has clearly demonstrated, ditching the stressed engine for a twin spar frame hasn't gotten them any closer to the front.
From my perspective as a street rider, I really don't see it as a relevant issue on the road, with street tires, lean angles and tire loading. The advantages, IMHO, outweigh the potential downsides at the upper end of competition.
Checa, et al, have also gone on record saying that handling was not their problem and that their splits in twisty sections were good; power and tire wear on the other hand were the issues. The Superstock Pani's do look busy though, even if they are much more competitive in class than in WSBK. I'd expect the rigid chassis structure just places more importance on getting the suspension and center of mass just right so the tire loading/unloading is optimized. Most engineers would say that's good; isolate the issues to one area so you are working on one thing rather than a much more complex system of interdependent parts. And as Ducati's MotoGP experience has clearly demonstrated, ditching the stressed engine for a twin spar frame hasn't gotten them any closer to the front.
From my perspective as a street rider, I really don't see it as a relevant issue on the road, with street tires, lean angles and tire loading. The advantages, IMHO, outweigh the potential downsides at the upper end of competition.
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MotoGP
MotoGP bikes are completely different than the 1199 obviously - so what I was talking about is the Panigale project and that chassis. I know that MotoGP has the wonderfully hard Bridgestone control tire. That Suter chassis Ducati is using in MotoGP is not working IMO due to the engine power/electronics/tire combo of Borgo Panigale's prototype GP bike.
Then the same can not be said in Moto GP, (prior to the frame change) most of those crashes (stoner and Hayden) we're low sides.
Hayden was even quoted, but then had to recant that he wanted to go back to the monocoque design as the perimeter frame changed nothing about feel.
Just saying, how much can a frame flex in the middle where the engine sits? Most flex should be at the ends, i.e., the head stock and swing arm pivot point.
From the crashes I've seen, in person and on the forum, they seem to hold together, Other than a small bursting into flames issue.
MotoGP bikes are completely different than the 1199 obviously - so what I was talking about is the Panigale project and that chassis. I know that MotoGP has the wonderfully hard Bridgestone control tire. That Suter chassis Ducati is using in MotoGP is not working IMO due to the engine power/electronics/tire combo of Borgo Panigale's prototype GP bike.
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