1199 Superleggera exclusive gear

CaliDuc said:

The SL was brought out to up the game against the HP4.

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At nearly 3 times the price????

Stw said:

At nearly 3 times the price????

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Nothing to do with price, everything to do with technology and market validation. Even at $64K and lets face it on the road prices are way higher, the bike is worth it.

CaliDuc said:

"Well, to be fair Ducati and Arai have been offering the option of adding a customized logo to this helmet since it was first offered for sale, so adding the SL name doesn't necessarily make the helmet any more exclusive than it already is." ...

Just to clear this up. Ducati do NOT offer a customized logo on the Carbon Arai helmet in the USA as this is the exact location of where the DOT approved sticker is. For reference find attached a photo of my helmet and the placement of the DOT sticker.

In addition, all helmets in the USA are only accepted by USA customs if they are sent directly from the place of manufacture. In the case of the Carbon Arai helmet this is Japan. The price of the helmet is what it is due to the helmet being hand made craftsmanship and the inherent quality.

Arai state that the Carbon Arai is the best motorcycle helmet out there and based on my ownership experience I agree with them.

Trust this helps.

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That is helpful. I was going off information coming directly from Pro Italia (below) when the helmet was first offered for sale. I suppose they may have spoken prior to understanding this regulation. So in this case it seems the Ducati name is simply replaced by the SL name - and for only $69k anyone can enjoy this exclusive modification.

The Arai Ducati Corse RXV carbon helmet is reserved for the most devoted riders that want the same helmet MotoGP riders wear. The Arai RXV is your chance to own the best helmet in the world.

To make this helmet even more unique and special there is a personalization option. Each helmet is hand painted to order including your name, race number or logo on the back in a 1.5" x 3" area. There is a fee of $65 for this service and you can supply artwork to us in vector format (eps, ai, etc...). Contact us to discuss this option prior to ordering.

More details: Arai Ducati Corse RXV Carbon Helmet (98101991X) | Pro Italia

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Stw said:

At nearly 3 times the price????

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It's certainly going to make for a very entertaining OTD thread!

But in all seriousness, the Superleggera could very well end up as the lightest liter bike ever produced which, in addition to the limited production run and exotic materials used, could make it worth the price of admission.

Duck41 said:

That is helpful. I was going off information coming directly from Pro Italia (below) when the helmet was first offered for sale. I suppose they may have spoken prior to understanding this regulation. So in this case it seems the Ducati name is simply replaced by the SL name - and for only $69k anyone can enjoy this exclusive modification.

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Yes, totally understandable.

ProItalia really needs to add *Customization option not available in the USA reference. They left it up there for non-USA customers.

Duck41 said:

On the contrary. In your previous post you mentioned that it wasn't the promotion price that was high as evidence by the actual price of the item already being $4k prior to being included in this promotion. In the very first statement of my last post I concurred with this statement by confirming that yes, it was my intention to imply the original price of the item is exorbitant. I then provided an example of why I believe this to be so. My argument has never been based on the idea that Ducati is substantially marking up the price.

Next, after addressing your comment regarding markup, I reemphasized my original point in stating that I believe throwing additional outrageously priced items at these VIP customers without offering any kind of discount is slightly insulting. Never did I state, or even imply for that matter, that these products should be specifically offered to any other subgroup of Ducati customers based on the model of bike they own. Swapping in an SL badge and marketing these items as an exclusive promotion seems like a sly attempt to generate additional revenue as opposed to demonstrating a sincere act of appreciation to an important customer group. My point was then, as it has been all along, that Ducati should be doing more to show their appreciation to these customers than simply alerting them to the possibility of spending even more money on overpriced products.

It all seems very clear to me but if you're failing to see how this is all making sense or how my statements have aligned with my original point, then I would simply recommend reviewing the dialogue.

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The fact that they are not marking it up any more for a limited edition run of product is already pretty reasonable. . There are going to be fewer of these made than the general public - that means a smaller production run (or graphics) and a higher amount of overhead from the custom items.. If you understand manufacturing, the exceptions cost more than mainstream product. ..

When I buy a limited edition Porsche, or a Italian supercar - the luggage that you can buy with it isn't "Discounted 10%" because you spent 10x what this bike costs. . So just because this bike is 65k and you bought it (which is below the price of an average high end car these days) - you want them to make a limited edition run of leathers and helmets for you and charge you less than they normally cost in-line. .. I get it now, makes a lot of sense. . .

anthem said:

The fact that they are not marking it up any more for a limited edition run of product is already pretty reasonable. . There are going to be fewer of these made than the general public - that means a smaller production run (or graphics) and a higher amount of overhead from the custom items.. If you understand manufacturing, the exceptions cost more than mainstream product. ..

When I buy a limited edition Porsche, or a Italian supercar - the luggage that you can buy with it isn't "Discounted 10%" because you spent 10x what this bike costs. . So just because this bike is 65k and you bought it (which is below the price of an average high end car these days) - you want them to make a limited edition run of leathers and helmets for you and charge you less than they normally cost in-line. .. I get it now, makes a lot of sense. . .

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Under circumstances where a truly new design is created for a limited edition run, the argument of additional overhead is valid; however, in this case I do not see anything in the promotion products to warrant increased prices which, to me, implies there is room to provide a better price to the customer. In the case of the helmet production, these are already being made to order so adding a 1" by 3.5" graphic (a process Arai is already set up for) and changing the color of the red tint isn't going to disrupt production efficiency. In the case of the leathers, they're simply sticking with a mass-produced design while swapping out a black piece in the crotch for a red piece, changing the tint of the red, and changing the lettering. Further, Dianese already offers the option to custom size suits when placing an order, so this selling point wouldn't substantially alter production efficiency either. Arai and Dianese are most likely netting their standard profit margin regardless by selling these products to Ducati at their standard wholesale prices, and instead of Ducati choosing to either forego or split their retail profit margin on these items in order to pass along savings to a group of VIP customers, they offer them at the same prices customers can normally pay outside of the promotion. As I've said before, there isn't anything necessarily wrong with this, but in my opinion it would have been nice for Ducati to bypass looking at this as an opportunity to increase profit margin and instead pass the savings along as a gesture of appreciation.

One thing that seems to be forgotten in this back n forth debate is demand. Unless of course I missed it somewhere in the blah blah blah.

If there is a massive wait list for a helmet that costs over $4k, then obviously the people who are forkin out the cash for them isn't too concerned with nickel n diming. If Ducati wants to take advantage of this further with their flapship motorcycle, then that is smart on Ducati's part. Customer is paying over $70k after it's said n done. What's another $5k-$7k for customized gear?

This reminds me of the Jordan Retro releases. I used to collect Jordan's in the early 2000's when I worked for niketown. Had over 150 pairs of Jordan's. Got them at half retail (my employee discount) and would sell them for double retail. Fast forward 10+ years, these same Jordan's are being released by Nike n brand Jordan but they are definitely not producing enough to meet demand. This is intentional. It creates demand as well as press around the brand. People who aren't able to get it, want ot more because they missed out. To prevent from missing out again, they follow all the release dates n keep a close eye. Evem then it's difficult to get a pair. Now why doesn't Nike and brand Jordan just make a .... ton of them for everyone to buy? That would make "cents" right? Well dollars in this case but no. They simply don't need to. Fact is this. These rerelased shoes have no money invested in R&D. They already have the blueprint of these shoes from its original days back in the '90's. They use a cheaper material and voila. A retro shoe has been recreated for a few dollars. What does it sell for? $170+.

Duck41 is right about his point and taking something that already exists so there isn't any cost to take into consideration when it comes to manufacturing. Just like the Jordan's I mentioned. The few "elite" buyers of the SL bike will more than likely NOT be track bikes. We all know that. That said, those few folks who buy the SL love the exclusivity of the bike. The likelihood of them wanting exclusive gear will probably match in terms of desire.

Smart Ducati.....very smart.

Seriously guys - you guys are coming up with a crazy hypothetical situation that just isn't smart or relevant. . How much backlash do you think Ducati would engender by offering a 10% discount on SL merchandise ? They still wouldn't win - you'd then have you guys going a) what is 10% - it should be Free with the bike B) wow, the SL guys can get the carbon helmet for 10% cheaper, why can't I C) Why is Ducati catering to the SL crowd when they can afford the bike to begin with. . . you don't think that would happen ? And honestly - those affording are the SL aren't looking for a 10% discount on SL merchandise - will they take it ? sure anybody would. But the reality is that most aren't looking for it with this type of bike. .

And in terms of a promotion like this - just /handling/ the stuff, whether promotional items through dealers, handling the arai production (which are 1 offs), the dainese communication for custom leather orders from dealers, etc - is time. And time is money. .. Even if its just 2 people to do the marketing, promotion, order handling, thats what - 60-100K in overhead there.

And again - are you an SL deposit holder/potential owner ? Or are you bitching for those actual owners that you think they should get a 10% discount over the current. How many actual SL owners are bitching they aren't getting a 10% discount on the helmet ?

anthem said:

Seriously guys - you guys are coming up with a crazy hypothetical situation that just isn't smart or relevant. . How much backlash do you think Ducati would engender by offering a 10% discount on SL merchandise ? They still wouldn't win - you'd then have you guys going a) what is 10% - it should be Free with the bike B) wow, the SL guys can get the carbon helmet for 10% cheaper, why can't I C) Why is Ducati catering to the SL crowd when they can afford the bike to begin with. . . you don't think that would happen ? And honestly - those affording are the SL aren't looking for a 10% discount on SL merchandise - will they take it ? sure anybody would. But the reality is that most aren't looking for it with this type of bike. .

And in terms of a promotion like this - just /handling/ the stuff, whether promotional items through dealers, handling the arai production (which are 1 offs), the dainese communication for custom leather orders from dealers, etc - is time. And time is money. .. Even if its just 2 people to do the marketing, promotion, order handling, thats what - 60-100K in overhead there.

And again - are you an SL deposit holder/potential owner ? Or are you bitching for those actual owners that you think they should get a 10% discount over the current. How many actual SL owners are bitching they aren't getting a 10% discount on the helmet ?

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I'm not sure anything posted thus far has been purely hypothetical - that is until you ironically introduced several hypotheticals into your post. So I will address those:

A) Expecting these products to be included in the purchase price is not sensible. Asking Ducati to forego a portion of their profit on these "throw in" promotional items for longtime customers/investors who are now buying $65k bikes (with $13k deposits and 7-12 month delivery times) is much more reasonable than expecting Ducati to actually incur costs at the tune of $4-7k per customer.
B) There's your exclusivity. It creates a sense that Ducati takes care of its most valuable customers by rewarding them with financial incentives. Not many are impressed by Ducati offering the same gear at the same price with only modest alterations, but offering these products at an exclusive reduced price would be pretty neat.
C) As I've mentioned in a previous post, many of these customers are longtime Ducati owners with over $100k invested in Ducati products. Taking care of this customer group is important not only to retain their business, but to send a message to potential big-time Ducati spenders that the company values its VIP and longtime customers. No harm done and everything to gain in customer appreciation.

Additionally, if sending out a mass e-mail about a gear promotion to 500 customers (and only actually taking orders from a small percentage of them) is really costing Ducati $60-100k, then it's a good thing Audi has taken the reins because that alludes to a preposterous mismanagement in company resources. Ideally, Ducati already has a team of full time PR and marketing employees, and they certainly have full-time Parts employees at dealership ready to take orders, so it's not as if the company needs to bring on additional staff to handle this promotion. I truly fail to see how something as simple as a small marketing promotion of such a small and specific magnitude could create a projected $100k expenditure. If someone in my company informed me that it would cost $60-100k to run a special promotion to 500 customers, heads would be rolling. I could see that possibly taking place where there is extreme incompetence at hand, or perhaps in a government agency (can of worms), but certainly not within a well-run for-profit organization.

To answer your last question, no, I am not a deposit holder for a Superleggera; although, if anything, this only shows I am an unbiased participant of this discussion with no self-serving agenda, so I'm not certain what you intend to prove or imply based on this alone.

so you are arguing that a group of owners (of which you apparently arent) should be offended that they are being offered semi-custom existing product at "exorbitant" prices (in actuality, same as their mainline product) - because Ducati didn't out of the goodness of their hearts cut into their margins and offer a discount over the mainline product.

That these so called longtime customers would feel even more exclusive because they get product at 10% off against everybody else and this would engender more loyalty among that base (again - of which you aren't).

No, I never stated they should be offended, only that I believe it to be slightly insulting and that it could have been more effectively executed. You seem to be on some kind of thrill that I am not a potential SL owner, yet I've never claimed to be nor have I stated I am speaking on their behalf. Are you suggesting only potential owners have a right to discuss SL-related topics? Should all non-potential SL owners also refrain from commenting on any other Superleggera related thread? Perhaps we should even expand that to restrict non-Panigale owners from discussing Panigales. You're venturing down a dark path here, and I suspect that if you do believe this, you will find yourself repeatedly disappointed as long as you participate in public forums. I also never suggested offering a discount would imply a higher degree of exclusivity, only that offering a discount on these products would be an exclusive promotion that I feel would appear as a more genuine act of appreciation as opposed to an attempt to further bump the profit margin.

Duck41 said:

No, I never stated they should be offended, only that I believe it to be slightly insulting and that it could have been more effectively executed. You seem to be on some kind of thrill that I am not a potential SL owner, yet I've never claimed to be nor have I stated I am speaking on their behalf. Are you suggesting only potential owners have a right to discuss SL-related topics? Should all non-potential SL owners also refrain from commenting on any other Superleggera related thread? Perhaps we should even expand that to restrict non-Panigale owners from discussing Panigales. You're venturing down a dark path here, and I suspect that if you do believe this, you will find yourself repeatedly disappointed as long as you participate in public forums. I also never suggested offering a discount would imply a higher degree of exclusivity, only that offering a discount on these products would be an exclusive promotion that I feel would appear as a more genuine act of appreciation as opposed to an attempt to further bump the profit margin.

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no, what I'm saying is that I find it strange that you find it insulting that Ducati doesn't do this, yet none of the SL owners (or deposit holders) find it insulting (at least I haven't heard anyone go I am a SL owner and am insulted that I have to pay list price for a changed up Arai carbon helmet). I'm glad you've narrowed it down that its just you and you're not speaking about actual SL owners or that you've not stated that they should be. So again - kind of ironic that they may not find it insulting as actual owners but you do ?

anthem said:

no, what I'm saying is that I find it strange that you find it insulting that Ducati doesn't do this, yet none of the SL owners (or deposit holders) find it insulting (at least I haven't heard anyone go I am a SL owner and am insulted that I have to pay list price for a changed up Arai carbon helmet). I'm glad you've narrowed it down that its just you and you're not speaking about actual SL owners or that you've not stated that they should be. So again - kind of ironic that they may not find it insulting as actual owners but you do ?

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I really don't see anything ironic about it. Unless the gear is being forced upon potential owners, they are unlikely to complain about "having" to pay for it. I'm very confident that if you took a poll of all potential SL owners asking whether they would prefer paying a reduced price for add on items, or full retail price, the vast majority would select the former. Heck, most dealers throw in a discount on gear just for buying any bike, so I'm surprised this concept seems to be foreign to you. Additionally, I feel I have made it very clear from the beginning that I have been expressing my opinion. I'm not sure how much more clearly I can communicate that I am expressing my opinion than by prefacing my statement with "in my opinion", which I did. But this wouldn't be the first time you've either intentionally misconstrued my statements or missed the boat entirely.

Listen, if you prefer paying full retail for products as a repeat customer then more power to you. I, however, find it favorable when manufacturers provide financial incentives to keep my business - whether that be for motorcycle gear, bikes, or any other luxury item. It's a winning business strategy that most major retailers now incorporate to some degree, and I believe it would be nice if Ducati did the same thing here. Based on the overwhelming support my post has received, I get the funny feeling I'm not the only one who feels this way.

You two may need your own thread lol. This has definitely gone further than I anticipated.

Duck41 said:

I really don't see anything ironic about it. Unless the gear is being forced upon potential owners, they are unlikely to complain about "having" to pay for it. I'm very confident that if you took a poll of all potential SL owners asking whether they would prefer paying a reduced price for add on items, or full retail price, the vast majority would select the former. Heck, most dealers throw in a discount on gear just for buying any bike, so I'm surprised this concept seems to be foreign to you. Additionally, I feel I have made it very clear from the beginning that I have been expressing my opinion. I'm not sure how much more clearly I can communicate that I am expressing my opinion than by prefacing my statement with "in my opinion", which I did. But this wouldn't be the first time you've either intentionally misconstrued my statements or missed the boat entirely.

Listen, if you prefer paying full retail for products as a repeat customer then more power to you. I, however, find it favorable when manufacturers provide financial incentives to keep my business - whether that be for motorcycle gear, bikes, or any other luxury item. It's a winning business strategy that most major retailers now incorporate to some degree, and I believe it would be nice if Ducati did the same thing here. Based on the overwhelming support my post has received, I get the funny feeling I'm not the only one who feels this way.

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Of course people would like to pay a reduced price on any goods (hence the support on your post), but this is the real world and Ducati is a luxury brand that are not going to discount a product that has yet to be launched (that usually cheapens a brand and people are buying exclusivity amongst other things).

Also as mentioned before this is not the first time they have launched a limited production bike and they have never had any issues selling these bikes that are usually 3x or more the price of base bike. I would understand offering a break if they are stuck on the showroom floor but this is not the case and the majority of these customers have a relationship with their dealership who i'm sure offer them breaks on certain products but they would not want to advertise that nationally.

reganc said:

Of course people would like to pay a reduced price on any goods (hence the support on your post), but this is the real world and Ducati is a luxury brand that are not going to discount a product that has yet to be launched (that usually cheapens a brand and people are buying exclusivity amongst other things).

Also as mentioned before this is not the first time they have launched a limited production bike and they have never had any issues selling these bikes that are usually 3x or more the price of base bike. I would understand offering a break if they are stuck on the showroom floor but this is not the case and the majority of these customers have a relationship with their dealership who i'm sure offer them breaks on certain products but they would not want to advertise that nationally.

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Certainly I wouldn't expect the price of the bike to be discounted but I see no reason this exclusive promotional gear couldn't be discounted as a part of the SL package. While admittedly a discount is not needed for this customer group, it is for this very reason that I believe discounting the price as a part of the promotion would be considered a more genuine and overall appreciated act on Ducati's part - they have after all been sitting (and most likely generating interest) on approximately $6.5 million in non-refundable deposits from these customers.

As you alluded, it may be a case of Ducati possibly offering discounts on this gear on a dealership/customer basis, but I don't necessarily agree that discounting these items in this case would cheapen the brand; if anything the value of these items are being increased, discounted price or not, simply by being associated with Ducati's premier product.

Duck41 said:

Certainly I wouldn't expect the price of the bike to be discounted but I see no reason this exclusive promotional gear couldn't be discounted as a part of the SL package. While admittedly a discount is not needed for this customer group, it is for this very reason that I believe discounting the price as a part of the promotion would be considered a more genuine and overall appreciated act on Ducati's part - they have after all been sitting (and most likely generating interest) on approximately $6.5 million in non-refundable deposits from these customers.

As you alluded, it may be a case of Ducati possibly offering discounts on this gear on a dealership/customer basis, but I don't necessarily agree that discounting these items in this case would cheapen the brand; if anything the value of these items are being increased, discounted price or not, simply by being associated with Ducati's premier product.

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OK, we get it, you could do a better job than the hacks on Ducati's marketing team. You can speak for the SL customers, too.

Could you point us to some successful superpremium product/marketing campaigns that illustrate your strategy? Maybe LaFerrari owners got discounted driving suits, Veyron customers received half off on their first oil change, I don't know.

I want to know who and how do you contact dainese to get them to customize a suit?

Thanks.

Thamer said:

I want to know who and how do you contact dainese to get them to customize a suit?

Thanks.

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Ask your ducati dealer ( i see you are from NYC so Ducati Soho run it at times) they have a Dainese fitter come into the store a couple of times a year to measure you up for a customized suit, as far as i remember it's around $3k but I didn't think that was for Kangaroo leather (i may be wrong).

However if spending that type of money i would want one of the airbag suits or i would go with RS taichi.