1199R Twin Swan song?

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Every time someone thinks the pinacle of engine development has come, new materials or technologies arrive to send them skulking toward the nearest dark corner.

In answer to a rm4two's question, Horsepower (an artificial construct) equals torque (in lb*ft) multiplied by rpm divided by 5252. So the BMW at it's 14k rpm ceiling making 230 hp is making 86.3 lb*ft of torque. To make equivalent horsepower at 12k rpm the Ducati would need to produce 100.7 lb*ft of torque. An achievable number.

Carbon internals. Direct cylinder injection. Pneumatic springs. Variable cam timing. Lots of things out there still to be toyed with!
 
Every time someone thinks the pinacle of engine development has come, new materials or technologies arrive to send them skulking toward the nearest dark corner.

In answer to a rm4two's question, Horsepower (an artificial construct) equals torque (in lb*ft) multiplied by rpm divided by 5252. So the BMW at it's 14k rpm ceiling making 230 hp is making 86.3 lb*ft of torque. To make equivalent horsepower at 12k rpm the Ducati would need to produce 100.7 lb*ft of torque. An achievable number.

Carbon internals. Direct cylinder injection. Pneumatic springs. Variable cam timing. Lots of things out there still to be toyed with!
While I agree with those possibilities to improve performance, torque has never been the problem; RPMs are. With the 1198 we already know that 97 lb*ft @ 8K rpms 1) wasn't enough and 2) was a wheelie machine. Therefore, I don't see how 100+ lb*ft @ 12k RPMs will be any better?
Getting a twin to spin 14k+ rpms I believe is a possibility, but doing so reliably and in a usable fashion is the tricky part and that's where Ducati/Audi will spend a boat load of $$. At the end of the day everything comes down to $$$ and I would not be surprised that someday in the not so distant future the decision is made that development costs of the L twin have outweighed it's performance and they go in another direction.
I love the L twin and my Pani and really really hope they can make/keep it competitive therefore, there will be no "skulking toward the nearest dark corner" on my part LOL should they figure it out. However, for the long term I just don't see it as being cost effective. :(
 
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The Panigale has to move a massive 112cm piston 2 x 60.8cm every rpm, as opposed to the BMW only moving ones that are only 80cm 2 x 49.7cms. That is a lot of mass at 14,000 rpms, just sayin'.
 
I agree with Cloner. There is lots of technology and materials out there, yet to be applied to engines for mortals (or poor immortals). As an R&D engineer I have view to many different aspects of technology from other applications. It's only a matter of time and budget.

The real question is: does Ducati/Audi have the determination and the cash to stay true to their L2 heritage and invent and engineer their way through the tough challenges or do they choose an easier/cheaper less traditional path to more performance.

How much are we willing to pay for exquisite Ducati L2 technology just to keep up to the I4's? The Pani is a bit pricey, but I love every aspect of mine. I appreciate all the thought and engineering that went into designing and producing it. Of course it's not perfect, it's Italian, but is has a soul that few machine designs ever achieve. My 996S was another with a soul, however it was a much less friendly one.

I'm sure if Ducati makes a production L4 it will also be exquisite and maybe even achieve the status of the L2. In any case I'll at least take a test ride, but the Pani stays.
 
NR750,RC30,VRF800,rvf400,vfr1200,crosstourer,desmosedici,rsv4/turno,horex roadster (V6),motus mst v4....etc..etc

never a technical hurdle....
price? a matter of economical of scale and branding...
 
Did anyone notice on the web site the mirrors are missing, rerplaced with "alloy plugs"? The HP/Torque figures are identical. So pretty much 8K for the rods and a different color tank (and a handful of CF). No mention of the 500 rpms in the marketing.
 
We live in exciting times…

In 2013, the 1199R will be the pinnacle of Ducati’s engineering prowess to compete against the BMW HP4. It is too bad that there is not a noticeable bump in performance similar to the 1098/1198R. However, the real race for dominance in superbikes will start in 2014 with Honda’s reintroduction of the V4. The threshold will be 200+HP with 3D traction control to allow us mere mortals to harness all that power. The result is I4s and V2s will unfortunately be left behind.

The lesson that has been learned is there is a real advantage for creating a halo vehicle and there is a select few that will pay almost any price to own one. The real question is; will Ducati produce a chassis-less V4 with 3D traction control in 2014 to compete in WSBK against Honda and Aprilia?
 
The real question is; will Ducati produce a chassis-less V4 with 3D traction control in 2014 to compete in WSBK against Honda and Aprilia?

Hey you are scaring me. Can anyone chip in with their thoughts on whether there is any good possibility of Ducati releasing a V4/better model/another limited edition bike soon?

I don't want to spend .... loads on customising an R if Ducati decides to wipe the smile off my face in another few months.
 
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No other superbike configuration I have ever owned comes close to the feeling I get from a v-twin.

This is yet another reason we pay 50% more (or, some of us, 100% more) to experience Ducati ownership.

So worth it.
 
We live in exciting times"¦

In 2013, the 1199R will be the pinnacle of Ducati's engineering prowess to compete against the BMW HP4. It is too bad that there is not a noticeable bump in performance similar to the 1098/1198R. However, the real race for dominance in superbikes will start in 2014 with Honda's reintroduction of the V4. The threshold will be 200+HP with 3D traction control to allow us mere mortals to harness all that power. The result is I4s and V2s will unfortunately be left behind.

The lesson that has been learned is there is a real advantage for creating a halo vehicle and there is a select few that will pay almost any price to own one. The real question is; will Ducati produce a chassis-less V4 with 3D traction control in 2014 to compete in WSBK against Honda and Aprilia?

But then you gotta buy the 3D helmet visor to actually use it fully, that's where the dealer gets ya ;):D
 
Hey you are scaring me. Can anyone chip in with their thoughts on whether there is any good possibility of Ducati releasing a V4/better model/another limited edition bike soon?

I don't want to spend .... loads on customising an R if Ducati decides to wipe the smile off my face in another few months.

Dont sweat hombre,I think we are safe. It is a big question mark though. What would/could Ducati do next? Setting aside fancy expensive engine internals and such like, V4 would be the logical step. But we would probably be looking at a homologation special,limited numbers and very expensive,like the Desmo but pricier. Does anybody know what Honda are planning with the road going RCV bike? How many of those are being built? If enough numbers are made then they will be eligible for WSB. I read that the Honda could be £60,000+ or more. OUCH:eek: But hey plenty of people out there with the money,but not me lol.
 
She is already part of my sophisticated anti-anything system. If I attempt to go too fast, pass a car I shouldn't, rev too high, etc. , I experience a sharp pain in my ribs, indicating I should not do whatver it is I was doing. I am not going to ever install this system on my Ducati...
 
Does anybody know what Honda are planning with the road going RCV bike? How many of those are being built?

Honda is planning on producing enough V4s to qualify for WSBK. The WSBK may make it more difficult for Honda's V4 by raising the required production numbers. We can only hope so, because that would drive the price down. At current WSBK production numbers Honda's V4 will be priced at near USD $120K"¦yikes.

BTW, at USD $70K in 2008 for the Desmo, Ducati had to increase production to meet demand!
 
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