1199s Electronic Suspension

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Bad_Habit

Joined
Sep 25, 2020
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i have a question a company mada a overhaul on my suspension, now i reinstalled it and now do i have to do reset something on the suspension or does it selfadjust to the set settiings?
 
You need to get the preload adjusted for your weight in riding gear first. The 1199S doesn't self adjust like the V4S and self adjust isn't the right word. It is more of a semi-active adjustment. The bike makes adjustments based on speed, lean angle, braking etc.

On the 1199S, you make adjustments per riding mode using the electronics.
 
Everything will have to be reset. Compression, rebound, ride height, static sag and preload. Go watch some Dave Moss videos on You Tube ("2 clicks out" is the tag for his videos) and it'll be fairly easy to do.
 
sorry i was not clear enogouth on my original question, i know presetting Preload and my "clicks" and i know it is not an active electronic souspension (and sorry i did not mention it originally it is an S and it has electronic "clicks" so i removed the suspension with set clicks and reinstalled it and now is the question, does the suspension know where the clicks were/are?
 
After a rebuild with new fluid, the adjustment points are going to change. You'll need to start at your former 'baseline' (clicks) and see if things have changed and make the appropriate changes to get the feeling and performance you had before. Be sure to slow the rebound down as much as possible to prevent adverse quick rebound problems that can cause tire wear patterns and unstable steering. Did you go back to the stock fluid or did you get heavier fluid? Mine is set up with 15W Maxima in the front and 10W in the rear with 60psi in the gas chamber in the rear. I'm 92 Kilos, so the thicker fluid is a must in my application.
 
Why do you only have 60psi in your shock? That sounds extremely low?
I would have thought like most shocks 10 to 12 bar or 150-175psi?
 
The 10 bar (Stock) pressure in the rear is used to prevent cavitation, although it also acts like an 'air spring' and provides extra pressure for the extension of the shock. Since the 2.5W 'stock' oil (at the same pressure) will cavitate more easily than the 10W I'm using, more pressure is now not really necessary. It may have an air spring affect, but it's pressurized to keep cavitation down and the fluid dynamics of the valving consistent. I'm already running 10W in the rear, instead of the 2.5w the shock came with (It's a Sachs). With the thicker fluid the rebound adjuster can be closed with the shock compressed and it will not extend, the same for compression. It would not do that with the stock fluid and pressure. I could run more pressure, but it doesn't feel like it's necessary. Even with only 4 bar (60 psi) it's very stiff, the adjusters have more immediate affect on the feel, and are much firmer now compared to stock pressures and oil. I actually have two rear shocks to test against each other. The other is totally stock, that I got from one of the members in this forum. My shock, with 4x thicker fluid and 60 psi in gas chamber is notably stiffer and firmer than the stock shock with normal oil/pressure. I have yet to run it so hard that it feels like it's losing hydraulic control from getting too hot.

A lot of people get onto the treadmill of 'if the book says so you must do it that way'. Which is why I run 30/32 F/R tire pressure on the street instead of the stock tire pressures (34/38) and have changed the ergonomics of the hand controls, rear sets, f/r ride heights and suspension settings to tune the bike for how I want it to feel. The factory settings and numbers are just baselines from which to deviate to make the bike do what you want it to do and ride the way you prefer. So, yeah, it works for me. Your results may vary.
 
Sheikh said:
The 10 bar (Stock) pressure in the rear is used to prevent cavitation, although it also acts like an 'air spring' and provides extra pressure for the extension of the shock. Since the 2.5W 'stock' oil (at the same pressure) will cavitate more easily than the 10W I'm using, more pressure is now not really necessary. It may have an air spring affect, but it's pressurized to keep cavitation down and the fluid dynamics of the valving consistent. I'm already running 10W in the rear, instead of the 2.5w the shock came with (It's a Sachs). With the thicker fluid the rebound adjuster can be closed with the shock compressed and it will not extend, the same for compression. It would not do that with the stock fluid and pressure. I could run more pressure, but it doesn't feel like it's necessary. Even with only 4 bar (60 psi) it's very stiff, the adjusters have more immediate affect on the feel, and are much firmer now compared to stock pressures and oil. I actually have two rear shocks to test against each other. The other is totally stock, that I got from one of the members in this forum. My shock, with 4x thicker fluid and 60 psi in gas chamber is notably stiffer and firmer than the stock shock with normal oil/pressure. I have yet to run it so hard that it feels like it's losing hydraulic control from getting too hot.

A lot of people get onto the treadmill of 'if the book says so you must do it that way'. Which is why I run 30/32 F/R tire pressure on the street instead of the stock tire pressures (34/38) and have changed the ergonomics of the hand controls, rear sets, f/r ride heights and suspension settings to tune the bike for how I want it to feel. The factory settings and numbers are just baselines from which to deviate to make the bike do what you want it to do and ride the way you prefer. So, yeah, it works for me. Your results may vary.
Click to expand...
I think all you have done is allow or increase the chances of cavitation and add hysteresis to your damping.
 
Last edited:
thanks for the advices, but the main thing is not my click setting itself but wether i have to do something with my software. The main concern is that it does not now where the zero and max. click setting is!
 
Bad_Habit said:
thanks for the advices, but the main thing is not my click setting itself but wether i have to do something with my software. The main concern is that it does not now where the zero and max. click setting is!
Click to expand...
I don’t believe you need to do anything except check your preload is what it was when you removed it. The electronic clickers should not have moved.
But i suggest you ask the person who overhauled it if they changed the preload from where it was.
 
Bad_Habit said:
thanks for the advices, but the main thing is not my click setting itself but wether i have to do something with my software. The main concern is that it does not now where the zero and max. click setting is!
Click to expand...
I think you are over-thinking this. The basic operation of the shock is the same. Unless they changed the fluid designation to a heavier Winter rating, all you do is set back to default parameters or what you originally had in the settings and go from there. It doesn't matter to the shock once you plug it back into your bike's electronics, it goes back to what you had set by adjusting the fluid damping positions of the solenoids to what you already have dialed in. The moment you go over some bumps the electronics will adapt to any changes made. You also have Dynamic Mode, and the electronics will re-learn your riding style and road dynamics as necessary.

Just get on the bike and ride it. Change your settings as necessary for how you feel things should be. Nothing should have changed, except for the damping becoming more pronounced due to new fluid. But if it has, and you are manually setting the damping, then adjust accordingly. Simple as that.
 
yoshiboldor said:
I think all you have done is allow or increase the chances of cavitation and add hysteresis to your damping.
Click to expand...
Denser fluids are harder to cavitate. Water is water, but dense water (at 1000 feet depth) is incredibly hard to cavitate vis-a-vis water at the surface. This is not only due to the pressure, but the perceived 'density', and thus flow-resistance through an orifice, being higher in the more pressurized liquid. Thicker density liquids requires less pressure for the same level of cavitation resistance. Water isn't the best fluid for this example, but it's the easiest to relate to.

It all comes down to shear strength (water is very low), and how easily a fluid can be forced to create a vacuum (cavitation) in a given environment. Thick oil is much harder to cavitate than thin oil, but thin oil is easier to valve for in a shock absorber. 10W is still very thin, but 2.5w may as almost a magnitude thinner. So 10W requires less pressure than 2.5W to prevent cavitation, even when hot. It also flows through an orifice slower, which is how they tune racing shocks by changing the W number (W does NOT stand for 'weight'. It stands for 'Winter', as in "when cold it has THIS equivalent viscosity") of the oil for certain conditions.

As for hysteresis, I fail to see its' relevance in this discussion. The mechanical parts don't have enough flex to consider it, and the fluid is merely a dampening element to the mechanical movement.
 
He's asking if the electronics memorize the suspension settings when the Ohlins electronic forks/shocks are removed and then re-installed.

I would imagine that the suspension ECU memorizes values, and should return the units to those settings once re-installed.

I have an 1199S and I've removed both the forks (I serviced them) and the rear shock (I changed the spring). I "think" the settings were retained once re-installed, but not entirely sure.

What does your dash screen show when you go to the suspension setting screens? Are they still at the previously-set values? I seem to remember hearing servos move my forks/shock back to set values when I plugged them in--but this was a couple years ago!
 
Sheikh said:
Denser fluids are harder to cavitate. Water is water, but dense water (at 1000 feet depth) is incredibly hard to cavitate vis-a-vis water at the surface. This is not only due to the pressure, but the perceived 'density', and thus flow-resistance through an orifice, being higher in the more pressurized liquid. Thicker density liquids requires less pressure for the same level of cavitation resistance. Water isn't the best fluid for this example, but it's the easiest to relate to.

It all comes down to shear strength (water is very low), and how easily a fluid can be forced to create a vacuum (cavitation) in a given environment. Thick oil is much harder to cavitate than thin oil, but thin oil is easier to valve for in a shock absorber. 10W is still very thin, but 2.5w may as almost a magnitude thinner. So 10W requires less pressure than 2.5W to prevent cavitation, even when hot. It also flows through an orifice slower, which is how they tune racing shocks by changing the W number (W does NOT stand for 'weight'. It stands for 'Winter', as in "when cold it has THIS equivalent viscosity") of the oil for certain conditions.

As for hysteresis, I fail to see its' relevance in this discussion. The mechanical parts don't have enough flex to consider it, and the fluid is merely a dampening element to the mechanical movement.
Click to expand...
Obviously the higher viscosity the more cavitation resistance. but it will still cavitate, its not cavitation proof.
I have seen non Newtonian fluids cavitate, i am talking fluids with a density of >2, these fluid have a yield
stress of >300pa. So these are orders of magnitude more dense than a 10W fork oil.
So I dont need a lesson on fluid dynamics.

And the hysteresis i am taking about it nothing to do with metal. I am not talking about hysteresis from the young modulus of Aluminum, i am talking about the hysteresis you can see on a damping chart form a shock dyno when you lower the charge pressure which occurs due to cavitation.

When you next take you spring off your shock, you will be able to push the shaft in with your hand, that is how little resistance you are getting form the charge in your revivor, and also see how slow it responds, the force is so small its irrelevant. If Ohlins needs more or less support they change the spring, or preload, they dont lower the charge pressures to <50% of the design and risk cavitation.

Look at an Ohlins shock card, when they recommend a higher viscosity oil, they do not recommend a lower pressure.
But what would Ohlins know, they only supply suspension for 95% of the MOTOGP and WSBK grid.

Anyway its your bike and we are all free to do what we like.
 
greggiacona said:
He's asking if the electronics memorize the suspension settings when the Ohlins electronic forks/shocks are removed and then re-installed.

I would imagine that the suspension ECU memorizes values, and should return the units to those settings once re-installed.

I have an 1199S and I've removed both the forks (I serviced them) and the rear shock (I changed the spring). I "think" the settings were retained once re-installed, but not entirely sure.

What does your dash screen show when you go to the suspension setting screens? Are they still at the previously-set values? I seem to remember hearing servos move my forks/shock back to set values when I plugged them in--but this was a couple years ago!
Click to expand...
The Ohlins NPX EX manual (the V4S Forks) says then when assembling the fork to make sure the piston shaft extension bottoms in the top cap. So unlike traditional forks where you dial in all your clicks to full in and set the top cap height, these are fixed.
My assumptions is the 1199S works would be the same, but only an Ohlins service tech could confirm.
So providing the people servicing it knew what they were doing, there it no need to recalibrate anything.

But because i am old school, before i remove the forks from the bike, i set my clickers to full in when i service them so i can feel the adjustment rod bottom.
 
yoshiboldor said:
The Ohlins NPX EX manual (the V4S Forks) says then when assembling the fork to make sure the piston shaft extension bottoms in the top cap. So unlike traditional forks where you dial in all your clicks to full in and set the top cap height, these are fixed.
My assumptions is the 1199S works would be the same, but only an Ohlins service tech could confirm.
So providing the people servicing it knew what they were doing, there it no need to recalibrate anything.

But because i am old school, before i remove the forks from the bike, i set my clickers to full in when i service them so i can feel the adjustment rod bottom.
Click to expand...
"recommendations" are always a starting point. ONLY a starting point. 60 psi is plenty, and 150 is overkill protection based on a the shocks getting a lot hotter and needing it. 90% of us never see a track or put a bike through that sort of abuse.. The sort of abuse that gets fluids changed every day, not every 5000 miles.
 
Sheikh said:
90% of us never see a track or put a bike through that sort of abuse.
Click to expand...
This dude's bike has 4 mirror on it. Do with that what you will.

1737425044032.png
 

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