1199S Oil Filter Cover Bolt threads on Engine Case. They Came Out ?!!?? Anyone else ever?

[savage_b]

The threads came right out of the casing?
Currently the right side bolt feels like it's in by a few threads that might be left in the hole....
The left bolt is tight to 14Nm but I'm afraid to torque it seeing as what happened on the right bolt..

Anyone seen this before ? Is this safe when in use (non track) ?
Are helicoils the answer, re threading to a bigger size ?
What works the best ?

 

[Paul G]

they dont appear to be helicoils, but magnify them and if they look machined then maybe yes and the answer may be to put new helicoils in with loctite

 

[savage_b]

they dont appear to be helicoils, but magnify them and if they look machined then maybe yes and the answer may be to put new helicoils in with loctite

Appreciate the post.
I’m thinking I pulled the threads right out of the engine casing …
I’ve never seen that before though.
It baffles me.
The bolt goes in, feels like it’s hitting a few threads but will spin continuously. It would never torque out.
My other question/concern was, should I fix it immediately or is there any chance it’s not an emergent issue? How much pressure is in that canister? Would it blow out?
I’m not thinking track days here. I’m thinking a few jaunts before I get to it.

 

[Paul G]

Definitely don't ride it without repairing, its an easy fix, just get the right size drill and tap, some Loctite, helicoil and its job done.

The easiest way to prep the hole out is to use a brake cleaning aerosol then get the right size drill for the helicoil and a blind tap, you can practice on a bit of scrap metal to get it right then the only tricky bit is making sure that you keep the drill really square which should be easy because the hole is already there and basically what you're doing is cleaning out the remnants of the old thread.

 

[Paul G]

The only reason that the thread ipulled out is because it has been overtightened. I can't remember what the correct torque is but it's not much, all it's doing is holding the cover in place and the O-ring is doing the work, I'm sure that one bolt would hold it in an emergency, but it's not a good practice to ride it if you can repair it.

 

[SirJAG]

The only reason that the thread ipulled out is because it has been overtightened. I can't remember what the correct torque is but it's not much, all it's doing is holding the cover in place and the O-ring is doing the work, I'm sure that one bolt would hold it in an emergency, but it's not a good practice to ride it if you can repair it.

12nm is spec. and youve hit every point worth mentioning. stay classy paul!
JAG

 

[baggerman]

Definitely don't ride it without repairing, its an easy fix, just get the right size drill and tap, some Loctite, helicoil and its job done.

The easiest way to prep the hole out is to use a brake cleaning aerosol then get the right size drill for the helicoil and a blind tap, you can practice on a bit of scrap metal to get it right then the only tricky bit is making sure that you keep the drill really square which should be easy because the hole is already there and basically what you're doing is cleaning out the remnants of the old thread.

Only thing I would add is if you've not done this a lot make a drill guide using the cover for the template and fixture it off the other hole so the drill doesn't wander. Oak works good for this kind of stuff.

 

[airjawed]

Is that bolt the stock one? I ask because there is a trick where you use a larger bolt on the cover to pull it off the bike. Maybe the larger bolt was used but then inserted all the way into the casing.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Appreciate the post.
I’m thinking I pulled the threads right out of the engine casing …
I’ve never seen that before though.
It baffles me.
The bolt goes in, feels like it’s hitting a few threads but will spin continuously. It would never torque out.
My other question/concern was, should I fix it immediately or is there any chance it’s not an emergent issue? How much pressure is in that canister? Would it blow out?
I’m not thinking track days here. I’m thinking a few jaunts before I get to it.

The thread is stripped so helicoil is the best option, if the thread has pulled out completely as in the full depth then you won't need to drill it, i use a slightly longer bolt sometimes to clear the remaining few threads. If you haven't fitted a helicoil before practice on some scrap alluminium they are easy to use but need to make sure you don't bottom out the insert, so measure the depth and stop at least one or two threads before bottom, most helicoil taps are intermediate so you won't be able to thread all the way. When you install the insert finish it one thread below surface don't leave it flush otherwise the end will keep coming out when you remove the bolt. If the insert is longer than the threaded hold and you need to cut it use a small triangle file and cut a V into it and break of the excess you cant use side cutter's. If you want i can send you a quick video of the process. Good luck

 

[savage_b]

Only thing I would add is if you've not done this a lot make a drill guide using the cover for the template and fixture it off the other hole so the drill doesn't wander. Oak works good for this kind of stuff.

You suggesting making a oak cover to use as a drill guide?

 

[savage_b]

Is that bolt the stock one? I ask because there is a trick where you use a larger bolt on the cover to pull it off the bike. Maybe the larger bolt was used but then inserted all the way into the casing.

I used to do this, my cover isn't threaded, now i just use an adjustable pipe wrench with a thin profile to grab it and pull it out after the bolts are removed. This seems to be best for me and doesn't risk what you're saying, which to answer you, could have happened in the past and now it's rearing the ugly head.
I can't deny, I don't always pull out the torque wrench. 12nM is it I see.

 

[savage_b]

The thread is stripped so helicoil is the best option, if the thread has pulled out completely as in the full depth then you won't need to drill it, i use a slightly longer bolt sometimes to clear the remaining few threads. If you haven't fitted a helicoil before practice on some scrap alluminium they are easy to use but need to make sure you don't bottom out the insert, so measure the depth and stop at least one or two threads before bottom, most helicoil taps are intermediate so you won't be able to thread all the way. When you install the insert finish it one thread below surface don't leave it flush otherwise the end will keep coming out when you remove the bolt. If the insert is longer than the threaded hold and you need to cut it use a small triangle file and cut a V into it and break of the excess you cant use side cutter's. If you want i can send you a quick video of the process. Good luck

A video would be great!
The process seems simple on paper, however it would be my first time using a helicoil, and even removing the existing threads as well.
My guess is that my goal is to keep the hole as is and not make it bigger?
Knowing that a bigger bolt can fit through the cover, would it be easier to retap the hole for the bigger size?

 

[baggerman]

You suggesting making a oak cover to use as a drill guide?

I make all kinds of fixtures out of oak. Cheap, hard, easy to work. Doesn't need to be a cover just a couple of properly spaced holes. And then do exactly as Bruce suggests.

 

[Paul G]

Ive done a lot of helicoil repairs, BW gave good advice but just make sure you've got the right tap and yes drilling it out "may" be unnecessary because the alloy is so soft. I should have been more specific, ideally you need a proper sized STI thread forming tap, think those bolts are M6x1.25 (cant remember!) but if you get a helicoil kit it will come with the correct tap drill and insert. You can get way with using standard taps with a lots of loctite in an emergency but its not the best as they are slightly loose fit.

 

[Paul G]

I used to do this, my cover isn't threaded, now i just use an adjustable pipe wrench with a thin profile to grab it and pull it out after the bolts are removed. This seems to be best for me and doesn't risk what you're saying, which to answer you, could have happened in the past and now it's rearing the ugly head.
I can't deny, I don't always pull out the torque wrench. 12nM is it I see.

if your talking about the cover for the filter on the XX99's, the covers holes are threaded M8's? so you can simply get a couple of socket screws and wind them in evenly to remove it

 

[Bruce Wayne]

A video would be great!
The process seems simple on paper, however it would be my first time using a helicoil, and even removing the existing threads as well.
My guess is that my goal is to keep the hole as is and not make it bigger?
Knowing that a bigger bolt can fit through the cover, would it be easier to retap the hole for the bigger size?

I will send it later today

 

[savage_b]

if your talking about the cover for the filter on the XX99's, the covers holes are threaded M8's? so you can simply get a couple of socket screws and wind them in evenly to remove it

this is a 2013. The cover holes aren't threaded. I can check again, for sanity sake. I know on my 959 I could thread m8 bolts to help remove it, this baby however I don't believe is threaded.

 

[savage_b]

Ive done a lot of helicoil repairs, BW gave good advice but just make sure you've got the right tap and yes drilling it out "may" be unnecessary because the alloy is so soft. I should have been more specific, ideally you need a proper sized STI thread forming tap, think those bolts are M6x1.25 (cant remember!) but if you get a helicoil kit it will come with the correct tap drill and insert. You can get way with using standard taps with a lots of loctite in an emergency but its not the best as they are slightly loose fit.

I have an M6x1.0 tap..... This what you mean? if I use this rather than M6x1.25 it would be a loose fit, but could be snugged up with loctite?

The insert portion (helicoil), this cannot bottom out was stated, nor should it be to the lip.
Can't bottom out to prevent the bolt from not seating fully?
Shouldn't pass the lip due to snagging whatever external to the hole itself and pulling itself out eventually?

Ensure when drilling old threads out to be straight on, using a template or drill brace to keep from damaging the hole or casing?
Need helicoil tap set for M6x1.25? Is this confirmed?
Practice first with the insert , the tap, the drilling, or all of the above?

 

[baggerman]

Just to confuse things depending on the dimension of stripped hole and the amount of case material surrounding the hoes it may be better to just thread the case to M7 X 1. I'm not sure a 6 x 1.25 is a common thread. The normal ones are 6 x 1 and 6 x .75. The minor diameter of a 7mm x 1 is 5.92 mm. So if the threads are pulled out at the root you can just tap it.

 

[savage_b]

Just to confuse things depending on the dimension of stripped hole and the amount of case material surrounding the hoes it may be better to just thread the case to M7 X 1. I'm not sure a 6 x 1.25 is a common thread. The normal ones are 6 x 1 and 6 x .75. The minor diameter of a 7mm x 1 is 5.92 mm. So if the threads are pulled out at the root you can just tap it.

That's what I was thinking. The cover hole fits the M8 bolt so if tapping for the next size up is easier and more effective, I could do that.
If the helicoil insert is sufficient, I can do that too, depending on whether the hole can be tapped to the original thread and pitch.
I haven't gotten to this yet. Im strapped for time usually, so commitment to the job is still pending.
Anyway, I plan to get it done, I did find the M6x1.25 helicoil kit on Amazon, but I'm having issues with getting it shipped to me. It's a hot standby at the moment.