12 O'clock boys

DUCENZO · Aug 13, 2013

Stw said:
I have edited the posts on here as required.... We can have all opinions on here but Racism will not fly..sorry...
I abhor censorship but I think we need some standards of behaviour/comments on here that we can be somewhat proud of.....

I do appreciate the gesture, so thank you.

That said, i'm not one to dwell on other people's issues even when they affect me, but editing one's written statement doesn't change anything...It's still there and I still know what it says and am still disgusted!

Erasing the his words is turning him into a beat around the bush racist...which is worst that an obvious rasist....it doesn't change the way he feels, he didn't request you change his words.

Honestly I don't think any admin should be able to change anyone's words on here, frankly if a comment is harmful/offensive enough to deem editable it should be removed!!...

Stw · Aug 13, 2013

DUCENZO said:
I do appreciate the gesture, so thank you.

That said, i'm not one to dwell on other people's issues even when they affect me, but editing one's written statement doesn't change anything...It's still there and I still know what it says and am still disgusted!

Erasing the his words is turning him into a beat around the bush racist...which is worst that an obvious rasist....it doesn't change the way he feels, he didn't request you change his words.

Honestly I don't think any admin should be able to change anyone's words on here, frankly if a comment is harmful/offensive enough to deem editable it should be removed!!...

There is only so much I can do... and I did remove it... Trying my best here...

ttkarp · Aug 13, 2013

DUCENZO said:
I do appreciate the gesture, so thank you.

That said, i'm not one to dwell on other people's issues even when they affect me, but editing one's written statement doesn't change anything...It's still there and I still know what it says and am still disgusted!

Erasing the his words is turning him into a beat around the bush racist...which is worst that an obvious rasist....it doesn't change the way he feels, he didn't request you change his words.

Honestly I don't think any admin should be able to change anyone's words on here, frankly if a comment is harmful/offensive enough to deem editable it should be removed!!...

I fail to see where any words were changed. Blocking it out to me is equivalent to deleting.

ttkarp · Aug 13, 2013

VAST said:
context. police breaking laws and reaction does not need to be linear nor immediate. there is history that has extra latency in poor hoods.

Context? Lots of assumptions being made here. These kids either stole the bikes, or their families are wealthy enough to afford expensive toys that clearly are being used to break the law. Under which scenario should I feel bad about their "oppression?"

VAST · Aug 13, 2013

complicated issue. a long discussion with much context needed. prob best not on a forum like this...

ttkarp said:
Context? Lots of assumptions being made here. These kids either stole the bikes, or their families are wealthy enough to afford expensive toys that clearly are being used to break the law. Under which scenario should I feel bad about their "oppression?"

Realprop · Aug 13, 2013

Some dumb guy had a Riley Cooper moment..

keep it moving...

P.S. to give it context he wants to sell his bike he can no longer afford if I remember... above market value..cuz his daddy skipped out...& now it's just him & his moms "doin what he's gotta do..." calling 40k/yr rich lets see 40k/yr w/ a 30k bike... hmm... In my favourite movie Boiler Room 2 guy's in the yellow ferrari utter the term "N**** Rich".

Fitting....

ttkarp · Aug 13, 2013

Realprop said:
Some dumb guy had a Riley Cooper moment..

keep it moving...

P.S. to give it context he wants to sell his bike he can no longer afford if I remember... above market value..cuz his daddy skipped out...& now it's just him & his moms "doin what he's gotta do..." calling 40k/yr rich lets see 40k/yr w/ a 30k bike... hmm... In my favourite movie Boiler Room 2 guy's in the yellow ferrari utter the term "N**** Rich".

Fitting....

Huh?

VAST · Aug 13, 2013

i suspect some here financing their 30k toys

oh well....context...

Realprop said:
Some dumb guy had a Riley Cooper moment..

keep it moving...

P.S. to give it context he wants to sell his bike he can no longer afford if I remember... above market value..cuz his daddy skipped out...& now it's just him & his moms "doin what he's gotta do..." calling 40k/yr rich lets see 40k/yr w/ a 30k bike... hmm... In my favourite movie Boiler Room 2 guy's in the yellow ferrari utter the term "N**** Rich".

Fitting....

ttkarp · Aug 13, 2013

VAST said:
complicated issue. a long discussion with much context needed. prob best not on a forum like this...

It's really as complicated as this to me: I think one armed bandits videos where he endangers public safety are reprehensible...and so is this. Any questions?

VAST · Aug 13, 2013

1-armed is an adult. these are kids. and i have no idea about 1-arms socioecon background...there is no doc on 1-armed and his parents and friends that i'm aware of....

ttkarp said:
It's really as complicated as this to me: I think one armed bandits videos where he endangers public safety are reprehensible...and so is this. Any questions?

VAST · Aug 13, 2013

and in terms of assets and net worth and financing 30k toys: don't feel so bad cause Uncle Sam's debt to GDP ratio is helluva lot uglier than even the worst USSA debt-slaves...and it's only getting worse for the outta control gov...so enjoy your toys and keep it at 12O'clock if you can and dare to....

ttkarp · Aug 13, 2013

VAST said:
1-armed is an adult. these are kids. and i have no idea about 1-arms socioecon background...there is no doc on 1-armed and his parents and friends that i'm aware of....

Plenty of adults in the video breaking laws. But you're missing my point...I don't care about their socioeconomic backgrounds...or their race...or their age, or anything else. Endangering the public is nothing to celebrate in my opinion. Period. There have been plenty of arguments on here about riding like fools to make videos. I haven't been supportive in any of those cases either.

ttkarp · Aug 13, 2013

VAST said:
and in terms of assets and net worth and financing 30k toys: don't feel so bad cause Uncle Sam's debt to GDP ratio is helluva lot uglier than even the worst USSA debt-slaves...and it's only getting worse for the outta control gov...so enjoy your toys and keep it at 12O'clock if you can and dare to....

Can't argue any of these points. But refuse to be impressed by any idiots breaking laws for a few minutes of fame.

VAST · Aug 13, 2013

i haven't voiced support for these 12'oclock kids. and as such i am not making any judgements on their activities. i did judge the cop "serving and protecting" and the racist comment...

would i like the kids to be prosecuted as adults? do i support exponentially longer crack-cocaine sentencing vs. powdered cocaine? you can extrapolate accordingly...

would i rather have a stunting school set up for these kids and taught by successful stunters who make quite a bit of money and prob pay taxes? is there a clear marketplace for stunters? kids in Spain [worse youth unemployment save for Greece in Western World] get to race bikes and some become champs; maybe a program like this is better for Baltimore kids than jailing them and/or cop cars ramming them off the streets [with lotta OT for the cops paid for by taxpayers for chasing kids around on dirt bikes]? just some ideas to mull over, before sentencing...

ttkarp said:
Plenty of adults in the video breaking laws. But you're missing my point...I don't care about their socioeconomic backgrounds...or their race...or their age, or anything else. Endangering the public is nothing to celebrate in my opinion. Period. There have been plenty of arguments on here about riding like fools to make videos. I haven't been supportive in any of those cases either.

VAST · Aug 13, 2013

if you watched carefully, it's not a few minutes of fame for these kids. it's their whole lives and their identities tied up in it. even the final quote in the trailer reinforces that sentiment explicitly.

they are not idiots. they have a very difficult reality to face.

i think people are judging without taking time to appreciate the full context here.

ttkarp said:
Can't argue any of these points. But refuse to be impressed by any idiots breaking laws for a few minutes of fame.

ttkarp · Aug 13, 2013

VAST said:
if you watched carefully, it's not a few minutes of fame for these kids. it's their whole lives and their identities tied up in it. even the final quote in the trailer reinforces that sentiment explicitly.

they are not idiots. they have a very difficult reality to face.

i think people are judging without taking time to appreciate the full context here.

Why don't you enlighten us on their brilliance and their cause. All I see is a bunch of kids (and some adults) riding non-road bikes and ignoring every law on city streets and wondering why the police are chasing them. But, please tell me what I'm missing from a 2 minute trailer

VAST · Aug 13, 2013

i already did, and not once did i refer to their activities as brilliant. re-read what i wrote. carefully. it's all there, though maybe not spelled out.

or maybe if you really want to know firsthand-- assuming you're legitimately curious-- go volunteer as a big bro to inner city youth; you can always opt out.

ttkarp said:
Why don't you enlighten us on their brilliance and their cause. All I see is a bunch of kids (and some adults) riding non-road bikes and ignoring every law on city streets and wondering why the police are chasing them. But, please tell me what I'm missing from a 2 minute trailer

ttkarp · Aug 13, 2013

VAST said:
i already did, and not once did i refer to their activities as brilliant. re-read what i wrote. carefully. it's all there, though maybe not spelled out.

or maybe if you really want to know firsthand-- assuming you're legitimately curious-- go volunteer as a big bro to inner city youth; you can always opt out.

Apparently I would be of little value as I can't wheelie very well. In addition, I would imagine my "well don't wheelie through the streets and the cops won't chase you" comments wouldn't be that helpful either. I worked with inner city youth for three years in several capacities and never once thought to encourage them ride illegal dirt bikes through the city as a solution to their problems.

VAST · Aug 13, 2013

who's encouraging them here? does the doc look great? yes. is the slowmo set piece at the end beautiful? i think so. is there a cautionary tone to the doc? definitely! come on man....

ttkarp said:
Apparently I would be of little value as I can't wheelie very well. In addition, I would imagine my "well don't wheelie through the streets and the cops won't chase you" comments wouldn't be that helpful either. I worked with inner city youth for three years in several capacities and never once thought to encourage them ride illegal dirt bikes through the city as a solution to their problems.

DUCENZO · Aug 13, 2013

VAST said:
i already did, and not once did i refer to their activities as brilliant. re-read what i wrote. carefully. it's all there, though maybe not spelled out.

or maybe if you really want to know firsthand-- assuming you're legitimately curious-- go volunteer as a big bro to inner city youth; you can always opt out.

I've been reading this wonderful debate and haven't had any input because you don't need any help with that VAST

...you cant spell it out anymore than that.

Like I said ealier, many don't know this "world", their world exists...this is life for them, not a few mins of fame, they don't know any different.

And I must stress, we are not cheering them on nor do we even support their actions. I think we're merely asking ppl to hear them out, learn something about someone (culture) other than at Starbucks.

Making a movie/documentary about a way of life doesn't mean you think it's brilliant, nor does watching such a film.

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