12 O'clock boys

guess they don't believe in ATGATT

if you gave an adept instructor 50 or so of these kids and we had an inner city motorsports program, you might have your first black motoGP champ a la Williams Sisters, Robert Ash, etc.

but in the USSA the mostly now privately owned prison-industrial complex generates far more revenues. the road to hell is seemingly paved with good intentions ¿ ¿ ¿

do we really need tennis stars and motogp champs??? heh.

DUCENZO said:

I've been reading this wonderful debate and haven't had any input because you don't need any help with that VAST ...you cant spell it out anymore than that.

Like I said ealier, many don't know this "world", their world exists...this is life for them, not a few mins of fame, they don't know any different.

And I must stress, we are not cheering them on nor do we even support their actions. I think we're merely asking ppl to hear them out, learn something about someone (culture) other than at Starbucks.

Making a movie/documentary about a way of life doesn't mean you think it's brilliant, nor does watching such a film.

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Please don't make judgements about what "world" I and others do or don't know. I fully understand this is their world. Glorifying it with professionally produced documentaries is surely done to discourage similar individuals from copying right?

VAST said:

if you gave an adept instructor 50 or so of these kids and we had an inner city motorsports program, you might have your first black motoGP champ a la Williams Sisters, Robert Ash, etc.

but in the USSA the mostly now privately owned prison-industrial complex generates far more revenues. the road to hell is seemingly paved with good intentions ¿ ¿ ¿

do we really need tennis stars and motogp champs??? heh.

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Put your money where your mouth is then.

are we taking up a collection here?

ttkarp said:

Put your money where your mouth is then.

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it's actually a very low-budget doc that's been 3 years in the making and is the late beastie boy's production co providing finishing funds and distribution...in case you want to know what you're typing about...

and this doc is NOT glorifying anything -- did you not read my previous comment? -- it's a cautionary tale with drama and action, kinda like "The Wire With Wheelies" .

have people lost their abilities for critical thinking/viewing??? don't be tone deaf-- listen to the sombre opening music: it's a cue for the tone of doc. can i spell it out anymore???

ttkarp said:

Please don't make judgements about what "world" I and others do or don't know. I fully understand this is their world. Glorifying it with professionally produced documentaries is surely done to discourage similar individuals from copying right?

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VAST said:

it's actually a very low-budget doc that's been 3 years in the making and is the late beastie boy's production co providing finishing funds and distribution...in case you want to know what you're typing about...

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Did you even read what I "typed about?"

but hey plenty of ........ went to Wall St. after they watched the movie, and still idolize Gordon Gecko...so maybe we got some more 12o'clock boyz.

[for the Boiler Room fans up in here heh.]

VAST said:

it's actually a very low-budget doc that's been 3 years in the making and is the late beastie boy's production co providing finishing funds and distribution...in case you want to know what you're typing about...

and this doc is NOT glorifying anything -- did you not read my previous comment? -- it's a cautionary tale with drama and action, kinda like "The Wire With Wheelies" .

have people lost their abilities for critical thinking/viewing??? don't be tone deaf-- listen to the sombre opening music: it's a cue for the tone of doc. can i spell it out anymore???

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You can spell out all you want o' great literary one. It doesn't mean I or anyone else has to agree with your ramblings. Just because you said something on a website doesn't make it legit. Maybe stick with your USSA brilliance?

you don't have to agree with me to continue to be wrong and completely miss the point.

and hey i thought you enjoyed my USSA brilliance, no? i mean you did click the like button and made separate post agreeing with me. see how it works around here? maybe the resident forum ...... can comment now-- but he's ignored...

if you can't be just, get nasty.

ttkarp said:

You can spell out all you want o' great literary one. It doesn't mean I or anyone else has to agree with your ramblings. Just because you said something on a website doesn't make it legit. Maybe stick with your USSA brilliance?

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VAST said:

you don't have to agree with me to continue to be wrong and completely miss the point.

and hey i thought you enjoyed my USSA brilliance, no? i mean you did click the like button and made separate post agreeing with me. see how it works around here? maybe the resident forum ...... can comment now-- but he's ignored...

if you can't be just, get nasty.

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I do enjoy it, and agree with much of it. THAT'S why I suggested you get back to it

Obviously we'll never agree on this matter though...which is cool and why I like this site so much. I think an impressionable kid (or group) could watch that movie and strive to be like them. You may not think its glorifying because of the music or the undertones, but I doubt kids will see anything other than a well done, slow motion, f-the police rebellious message. Hopefully I'll continue to be wrong as you suggest.

my friend, can we at least wait for this doc to be released before we speculate what may or may not be glorified and by whom?

and yes, people do stupid .... all the time based on all the stupid .... they see in stupid movies. this doc, given the trailer, appears quite intelligent.

EDIT: it's funny how people see what they want to see, without really looking. read the blurbs on the trailer, listen to the mother lament her wild child, look at the birds in the sky, the cops [even the seemingly good one trying to warn the kid], the sullen kid with the broken arm, the tone, the music: this doc is dead serious about it's intentions, sans the moralizing [at least in the trailer]; and that makes for potentially great art. and all people see here are black kids wil'in out on bikes. this is why .... is getting worse: people just don't want to think....

EDIT2: let's have a little thought/perception experiment here: ttkarp please read my above EDIT and then re-watch the trailer with what i ranted on about in mind.

ttkarp said:

I do enjoy it, and agree with much of it. THAT'S why I suggested you get back to it

Obviously we'll never agree on this matter though...which is cool and why I like this site so much. I think an impressionable kid (or group) could watch that movie and strive to be like them. You may not think its glorifying because of the music or the undertones, but I doubt kids will see anything other than a well done, slow motion, f-the police rebellious message. Hopefully I'll continue to be wrong as you suggest.

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I posted this video because its bike related, I'm black from the inner city, didn't graduate HS, yes I've partaken in actions like these and yes I knew this video was going to spark some interesting conversation. I ride my dirt bike through my very suburban neighborhood now, will I ride it through the city streets... No. But yes I have done it many times in the past and yes I've had the police literally kick me off of my bike. Yes they're breaking the law but I'm sure when the majority of us look down at our speedometer the next time we ride we'll be well over the speed limit, I'm sure a lot of us turn the DTC off just to ride a good wheelie so lets not be hypocrites, yes they are a bit excessive but if you've never lived in the ghetto as a participant not as a hostage of your surroundings you can't and won't understand. I can relate to it first hand, I've went from walking 2 blocks to the corner store seeing people sell and do drugs to running into Joe Montana and his wife in my residence that I live in now... And as for all the racist stuff, its funny when someone says racist comments when they can't be touched because thats the same person that gets knocked out outside of the club when they grow the balls to say it to someones face.

The internet is a wonderful place for anonymous braggadocio, isn't it, CDuc?!? I'd sure like to see a face to face meeting of several of the folks on this and other forums. In the red corner, weighing..........

As for me, I still don't understand how anyone can defend the actions portrayed in this documentary. Understand....sure. Defend, condone, support...no frikkin' way! As a victim of theft I could never cheer a thief. As an armed defender of the American Constitution, I could never cheer it's subversion. As a motorcyclist I could never cheer the recklessness and lack of respect for society exhibited in this trailer.

I get that the documentary is about more than a bunch of kids out acting a fool.

The world isn't fair. It never has been. It never will be. All men are NOT created equal....thank Dog! Inequality is the natural state of things.

If you want "fair" then take your kids and ride the rides, 'cause that's the only place the word has legitimate meaning in my lexicon unless you're describing a particularly attractive member of the female gender. Few people "deserve" a life of poverty....but that doesn't change the fact that they're going to get one.

Attempts to change that particular reality are futile, despite the best efforts of our more compassionate brethren. No documentary, no charity, no government program can make the whole of society ambitious, or responsible, or even comfortable. Any belief to the contrary is facile and naïve.

Anyway, CDuc, sounds like both of us grew up poor and made better of ourselves. I guess proper parenting and a bit of ambition can overcome nearly any circumstance, huh? I don't ask for equal opportunity......just the will to grasp the opportunities presented and the strength to hang on to them! So far, so good.

Cloner said:

As for me, I still don't understand how anyone can defend the actions portrayed in this documentary. Understand....sure. Defend, condone, support...no frikkin' way! As a victim of theft I could never cheer a thief. As an armed defender of the American Constitution, I could never cheer it's subversion. As a motorcyclist I could never cheer the recklessness and lack of respect for society exhibited in this trailer.

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+1 Well said

Cloner said:

I guess proper parenting and a bit of ambition can overcome nearly any circumstance, huh? I don't ask for equal opportunity......just the will to grasp the opportunities presented and the strength to hang on to them! So far, so good.

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This for me says it all. If there was a positive productive way to channel their riding skills, that I would heartily condone. Opportunity rarely presents itself however but I admire anyone who latches on to even the slimmest hope and runs with it.

I read and absorbed the posts. I will not be watching said documentary. If those guys think they're suffering, look across the pond or below the border.

I also detest bike theft, how many do you think were hot?

Please tell me this is a snuff film with brains on the pavement after looping stolen bikes!

Where does it say that the bikes are stolen!?!?!?!?!?!?

Cloner said:

As for me, I still don't understand how anyone can defend the actions portrayed in this documentary. Understand....sure. Defend, condone, support...no frikkin' way! As a victim of theft I could never cheer a thief. As an armed defender of the American Constitution, I could never cheer it's subversion. As a motorcyclist I could never cheer the recklessness and lack of respect for society exhibited in this trailer.

.

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ROFL! That post just oozes hypocrisy

All of us own a 200 hp sportsbike. You cannot got out with one without breaking the law, period.

At least, these kids vent with bikes instead of drugs or firearms, plus the amount of skill displayed in that vid I am sure exceeds that of VAST and all his Neanderthal acolytes combined.