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Help Support Ducati Forum:
I have the same issues on my 1299 S
I added the Akropovic slip on's to get ride of the cat.. ( $3500 ) which is ridiculously expensive for slip on's from ANY company.. *(I also removed the flapper valve in the exhaust) It didn't help at all on the throttle response. As a.matter of fact, it is now even leaner than it was before...! I have a really bad flat spot between 4300 to 7400 RPM.it revs real slow and falls of power until I get it back up past 8000 rpm. This really hurts at the track when trying to power out of a turn and I have to hold it wide open and then WAIT for it to spin up to speed and start pulling (around 8000 rpm)... This sucks..!!!...
I had it run on a dyno yesterday and found out why... It is ridiculously leaned out! It started out at around 16.5 AFR at around 3500rpm and stayed around there until it arrived to 4500 and then dipped down to 14.8 (still lean) then rose again to anywhere from 15.1 up to 17.5 ! BTW I did have the new Map Key for the supposedly better map for the Akropovic exhaust installed.. Not any difference that I COULD SEE.
It did help clear up some of the jumpy throttle response right off the low throttle but it still doesn't run like a 1285 cc twin should..!
Evidently either the O2 sensors are not working correctly or the bikes fuel map is just really leaned out from the factory... *At wide open throttle at 10500 rpm it starts running rich at around 14.0 (This big twin needs to be around 12.9 to 13.2 AFR) to run correctly and utilize the best power characteristics of that big motor. . It is simply starving for fuel most of the time. No wonder it runs hot!
Alas, I cannot get it properly mapped on a Dyno until someone makes a Power commander or a Bazzaz etc. for this model..
** From what I have read if you leave the factory O2 sensors connected the factory ECU will override the map you install and you are back to square one.. THIS IS RIDICUlOUS TO SPEND THAT MUCH MONEY AND THE BIKE RUNS TERRIBLE.. Ducati needs to step up and fix their software/injection issues....period..!
My dealer is great and is bending over backwards to get it running right but they have very little support from the factory and are having to use the Nexxer unit to try to program it..
Ducati needs to get their .... together!
Speedy
I added the Akropovic slip on's to get ride of the cat.. ( $3500 ) which is ridiculously expensive for slip on's from ANY company.. *(I also removed the flapper valve in the exhaust) It didn't help at all on the throttle response. As a.matter of fact, it is now even leaner than it was before...! I have a really bad flat spot between 4300 to 7400 RPM.it revs real slow and falls of power until I get it back up past 8000 rpm. This really hurts at the track when trying to power out of a turn and I have to hold it wide open and then WAIT for it to spin up to speed and start pulling (around 8000 rpm)... This sucks..!!!...
I had it run on a dyno yesterday and found out why... It is ridiculously leaned out! It started out at around 16.5 AFR at around 3500rpm and stayed around there until it arrived to 4500 and then dipped down to 14.8 (still lean) then rose again to anywhere from 15.1 up to 17.5 ! BTW I did have the new Map Key for the supposedly better map for the Akropovic exhaust installed.. Not any difference that I COULD SEE.
It did help clear up some of the jumpy throttle response right off the low throttle but it still doesn't run like a 1285 cc twin should..!
Evidently either the O2 sensors are not working correctly or the bikes fuel map is just really leaned out from the factory... *At wide open throttle at 10500 rpm it starts running rich at around 14.0 (This big twin needs to be around 12.9 to 13.2 AFR) to run correctly and utilize the best power characteristics of that big motor. . It is simply starving for fuel most of the time. No wonder it runs hot!
Alas, I cannot get it properly mapped on a Dyno until someone makes a Power commander or a Bazzaz etc. for this model..
** From what I have read if you leave the factory O2 sensors connected the factory ECU will override the map you install and you are back to square one.. THIS IS RIDICUlOUS TO SPEND THAT MUCH MONEY AND THE BIKE RUNS TERRIBLE.. Ducati needs to step up and fix their software/injection issues....period..!
My dealer is great and is bending over backwards to get it running right but they have very little support from the factory and are having to use the Nexxer unit to try to program it..
Ducati needs to get their .... together!
Speedy
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2012
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- Sydney, New South Wales, Australia
Speedy,
Unless I am reading you post wrong and maybe I have misunderstood. But how does adding the Akra slip ons make the bike run leaner ?
How is your tuner accessing the data to tell you what the AFR is at varying revs ?
cheers
Iwas told by the dealer that the Akropovic slip ons have less back pressure ie no cats and will run leaner unless you load the map key for their "special map" The dealer loaded the special map and it ran like crap it said it needed an update but would not accept the update.
The dyno guy put an exhaust sensor in the pipe while running the dyno and he showed me the AFR at various rpms from idle to full throttle it was all over the place and mostly very lean in the midrange fom about 4k to 7k rpm.
i think the bike was running lean even with the stock exhaust before the slip on's it just got worse.
It has always had a real flat spot between 4500 to 7000 rpm It just never felt like it was pulling strong as it should.since this is my first Ducati/big twin i had no reference point until i rode someones elses bike I think the ECU is screwed up or the O2 sensors are not working properly because it is WAAAAY off on the AFR. it is simply starving for fuel .
Speedy
I'm sorry Speedy but something is not right here.
All bikes run rich from factory - the 1299 was no exception - stock it ran rich and with the Akra full system and Ducati upmap it was still very rich - my tuner pulled heaps of fuel out of it throughout the rev range (especially between 5 and 10,000 rpm and picked up power everywhere (check my other thread).
Did you dyno guy disconnect the rear wheel speed sensor? If not then his readings can not be relied upon - my tuner has confirmed by testing himself that if the speed sensor is left connected the exh screws around with fuel and timing despite turning all other electric systems off.
If he did do this then there is something wrong with your bike - I would have thought a faulty O2 sensor would tend to make the bike run rich but I may be wrong. Lean suggests a fuel pump or injector issue to me. Either way, send it back to the dealer!!!
All bikes run rich from factory - the 1299 was no exception - stock it ran rich and with the Akra full system and Ducati upmap it was still very rich - my tuner pulled heaps of fuel out of it throughout the rev range (especially between 5 and 10,000 rpm and picked up power everywhere (check my other thread).
Did you dyno guy disconnect the rear wheel speed sensor? If not then his readings can not be relied upon - my tuner has confirmed by testing himself that if the speed sensor is left connected the exh screws around with fuel and timing despite turning all other electric systems off.
If he did do this then there is something wrong with your bike - I would have thought a faulty O2 sensor would tend to make the bike run rich but I may be wrong. Lean suggests a fuel pump or injector issue to me. Either way, send it back to the dealer!!!
fzr100098
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Buttnekid is spot-on. Shillings dyno was super rich (granted he didn't have the speed sensor disconnected), like mid 10s AFR
No doubt the reason this bike isn't putting down 185 rwhp in so many dyno runs is the speed sensor issue and rich fueling. Even bone stock, it needs to be tuned.
No doubt the reason this bike isn't putting down 185 rwhp in so many dyno runs is the speed sensor issue and rich fueling. Even bone stock, it needs to be tuned.
fzr100098
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$3500 for slip-ons is pure insanity, and a gain of what, 3-4 hp?
Thanks Hmm? He did not disconnect the speed sensor a the rear wheel so his reading may e off then.. All I know is that the bike feels like it is real leaned out from about 4500 to 7K and it then starts pulling stronger. I cannot get any real help from the Dealer until they get hold of Ducati (and Ducati actually does something about it!) The bike should have been somewhere close in the A/ F to run strong throughout the throttle range.
I never had these issues with the Kawasaki or Yamahas or Hondas I have owned..
Ducati really has you by the short hairs because they limit your choices to basically their proprietary products to match their electronics and programs in their ECU etc. The Akro slip on's are beautiful and very well made but not really anywhere near being worth $3500
I was just desperate to find some way to free up the system and hopefully get it to run smoother on the low end and pull stronger by being able to use their special "Up Map" Well it wasn't worth crap..
.. It may be just my bike but the last time I rode at the COTA track I was getting outrun by 765 Triumph's coming out of the corners because it took so long to spin up past 7K rpm and finally start pulling.(this is with a 14 tooth sprocket on the front) This is just plain sad! It definitely has something wrong with it and it really feels like it is running lean and just not pulling right until the motor hits about 8000 rpm.. of course by then it is too late to catch up...... Very aggravating
Thanks for your tip about the rear speed sensor.. I did have the traction control turned off when it was being tested.
Speedy
I never had these issues with the Kawasaki or Yamahas or Hondas I have owned..
Ducati really has you by the short hairs because they limit your choices to basically their proprietary products to match their electronics and programs in their ECU etc. The Akro slip on's are beautiful and very well made but not really anywhere near being worth $3500
I was just desperate to find some way to free up the system and hopefully get it to run smoother on the low end and pull stronger by being able to use their special "Up Map" Well it wasn't worth crap..
.. It may be just my bike but the last time I rode at the COTA track I was getting outrun by 765 Triumph's coming out of the corners because it took so long to spin up past 7K rpm and finally start pulling.(this is with a 14 tooth sprocket on the front) This is just plain sad! It definitely has something wrong with it and it really feels like it is running lean and just not pulling right until the motor hits about 8000 rpm.. of course by then it is too late to catch up...... Very aggravating
Thanks for your tip about the rear speed sensor.. I did have the traction control turned off when it was being tested.
Speedy
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- San Diego, CA
Speedy, you need to have all electrics turned off, wheelie control, engine braking control, traction control and the rear wheel speed sensor disconnected to get an accurate reading on the dyno.
I might also add (and this will give away what I do for a crust), if you went into the dealer complaining about a perceived running issue between 4k and 7k (which is ordinarily the part of the factory mapping that runs rich, not lean and where the dip is normally found and where tuning by leaning out the A/Fs brings about the most gains) and they said, "here take some Akra slip-ons, these will fix your problem", then hands down you can take that bike back to the dealer and ask them to remove them slip ons and give you a full refund including any amounts they charged you for labour.
They have made a substantial representation that your issue is solveable by fitting Akra pipes and an up-map when that (1) isnt the case at all even if your bike was running as it should - even adding the akras and up-map, the dip is still there albeit less pronounced than stock); and (2) in your specific case, there is clearly something far more amiss such that fitting a platinum plated, jewel encrusted exhaust hand crafted from a unicorn's horn would be unlikely to fix.
There is clearly something wrong with either your ECU itself (because if its was software related, the Upmap should have made it much better and it made it worse) or some other hardware (such as injectors or fuel pump etc, maybe 02 sensor but I doubt it) that is not working correctly.
If i were you, I would take it back to the dyno shop, have him disconnect the rear wheel speed sensor, turn off ALL electronic assistance packages and then do a power run that shows power and air fuel mixtures. Then take that to Ducati along with an email from the tuner confirming he disconnected the rear wheel sensor as well as turning off all electronic systems and let them make the next call.
Add the cost of the dyno run to the refund you want from Ducati given they wont do anything without further insistance from you.
By the way, please post up the new dyno graph here as well for us to all give you some more insightful commentary
I might also add (and this will give away what I do for a crust), if you went into the dealer complaining about a perceived running issue between 4k and 7k (which is ordinarily the part of the factory mapping that runs rich, not lean and where the dip is normally found and where tuning by leaning out the A/Fs brings about the most gains) and they said, "here take some Akra slip-ons, these will fix your problem", then hands down you can take that bike back to the dealer and ask them to remove them slip ons and give you a full refund including any amounts they charged you for labour.
They have made a substantial representation that your issue is solveable by fitting Akra pipes and an up-map when that (1) isnt the case at all even if your bike was running as it should - even adding the akras and up-map, the dip is still there albeit less pronounced than stock); and (2) in your specific case, there is clearly something far more amiss such that fitting a platinum plated, jewel encrusted exhaust hand crafted from a unicorn's horn would be unlikely to fix.
There is clearly something wrong with either your ECU itself (because if its was software related, the Upmap should have made it much better and it made it worse) or some other hardware (such as injectors or fuel pump etc, maybe 02 sensor but I doubt it) that is not working correctly.
If i were you, I would take it back to the dyno shop, have him disconnect the rear wheel speed sensor, turn off ALL electronic assistance packages and then do a power run that shows power and air fuel mixtures. Then take that to Ducati along with an email from the tuner confirming he disconnected the rear wheel sensor as well as turning off all electronic systems and let them make the next call.
Add the cost of the dyno run to the refund you want from Ducati given they wont do anything without further insistance from you.
By the way, please post up the new dyno graph here as well for us to all give you some more insightful commentary
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I have a 1199s 2012. I think the money I spent on my full akra was worth every cent, that plus 200 on a MWR sbk filter, and about $800 on Tuneboy with cruise control and a custom tune on a dyno done by Wayne himself got me to 190.7 HP
Bike pulls like a train and does not stop, no flat spot. Power kicks in at about 4500 and just increases till rev limiter.
I think there are some tuners out there that just ........ to people about what they can adjust on these bikes. Unless they can access the ECU and then really know what they are doing, it's probably worthless.
It does not matter what dyno numbers I got. The proof to me was when I got on the bike and felt the chalk and cheese difference
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I have the 1299 S
full Akrapovic
Mostly for tracks use
I come from a 1198 SP full termi ( lot's of mid range compare to the 1199 )
Never felt that dip with 1299 ... it pulls and pulls again
how are your DTC settings and engine brake control set on track ?
that bike has a plain and full mid-range response , I don't have to rev up like with the 1199 .
The 1299 exits corners like a bullet
I didn't dyno it , but I feel it and moreover my lap times are much better , I don't have to fight with the beast as I did with the 1198.
full Akrapovic
Mostly for tracks use
I come from a 1198 SP full termi ( lot's of mid range compare to the 1199 )
Never felt that dip with 1299 ... it pulls and pulls again
how are your DTC settings and engine brake control set on track ?
that bike has a plain and full mid-range response , I don't have to rev up like with the 1199 .
The 1299 exits corners like a bullet
I didn't dyno it , but I feel it and moreover my lap times are much better , I don't have to fight with the beast as I did with the 1198.
DTC is set at level 2 Engine braking at level 1 Wheelie control at 3 Engine set on full power On the track I run the Pirelli SC2 slicks..
Setting don't matter It still has a terrible flat spot. Maybe it is just my bike? MY old 2011 ZX10R would stomp it on coming out of the turns hard.. The 1299 just takes so long to spin up into the power that I get outrun often by lesser powered bikes.. It just feels like it is running out of fuel and has to get through a certain rpm to start pulling..
Setting don't matter It still has a terrible flat spot. Maybe it is just my bike? MY old 2011 ZX10R would stomp it on coming out of the turns hard.. The 1299 just takes so long to spin up into the power that I get outrun often by lesser powered bikes.. It just feels like it is running out of fuel and has to get through a certain rpm to start pulling..
Last edited:
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- Jan 9, 2014
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It's your bike. You shouldn't be getting 35mpg riding it hard.
My bad. I meant 25 mpg roughly. All I know is I can go about 80 miles and the damn fuel light comes on and it has about 1.3 gallons. Crappy gas mileage. I kind of expected a big twin to get poor mileage but sure thought it would run better...
I am in Texas. Are the tune boys available here in the USA?
Speedy
I am in Texas. Are the tune boys available here in the USA?
Speedy
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