2013 R V's 2015 R

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kismetcapitan said:
I plan to run back to back dyno runs with a Desmosedici RR with its race kit after my own mapping is complete. It's already obvious that the 1299S makes a lot more torque. If it makes equal or more horsepower and weighs less, then I'll be happy - the D16RR has been a performance benchmark for years, at least for Ducatisti.
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2015 R is the new performance bench mark. Chas Davies has put in lap times on it, road trim, only 4 seconds off his WSBK times. He stated it could qualify for WSBK out of the crate, quite impressive.

The Desmo will always be special though as it is the only bike Ducati made as a GP replica. Although it has been superseded by newer models, the new R is a variant of the Panigale model, not it's own unique machine.
 
shakazulu12 said:
If you watch really close, you will still see some world level riders (WSBK, WSS, and even Moto GP) still feathering the clutch in certain corners. The article I was reading about electronics mentioned that some riders still prefer to control engine braking themselves that way.
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Agreed.

Even with a good aftermarket slipper clutch, I still feather the clutch out in many situations (especially corner entries where I am finishing my downshifts on the way to apex). I almost use it like a hand-mounted rear brake.
 
kismetcapitan said:
autoblipper? I'd give 3 seconds of the difference to more power, and 2 seconds to improved geometry.

autoblipper does free up the mind, which is significant in a hard braking situation, where you really need to focus on the brakes, brake marker, how much room you have left, and keeping the bike stable while keeping the mind calm as you go from 170mph into a 35mph chicane.

yes, clutchwork is reflexive. if it isn't, one really ought not to be in anything but the novice group on a track. and clutch feathering is really the best way to truly fine-tune engine braking, which is all the more important on big V-twins.

but I love the autoblipper. I think EVERY motorcycle should have an up/down quickshifter :)
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Agreed. I might could see the autoblipper saving time IF the gearbox was automatic (meaning you didn't have to downshift at all). But even that would only shave minimal time as shifting doesn't really have anything to do with where you need to apply the brakes.
 
kismetcapitan said:
I plan to run back to back dyno runs with a Desmosedici RR with its race kit after my own mapping is complete. It's already obvious that the 1299S makes a lot more torque. If it makes equal or more horsepower and weighs less, then I'll be happy - the D16RR has been a performance benchmark for years, at least for Ducatisti.
Click to expand...

reganc said:
i never thought the d16rr handled particularly well with its really stiff chassis and it felt short on it's claimed bhp numbers i remember at the time my 1098r felt faster and in my opinion the 1098r is a much better bike overall but it doesn't look like a gp bike. To say its been the benchmark for Ducatisti (whoever they are) seems a stretch.

the 1299 will stomp the D16rr on a dyno. Not that it really matters
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Yep, the D16 was more of a novelty bike than anything else. The true HP numbers fell way short of the claimed numbers by Ducati. And it was really stiff and didn't handle all that well. It was also heavier than what it should have been.

When it came out a large Euro magazine did a full test comparison test on it against the R1 and the R1 was faster in every way. And the really sad part is that was back when the R1 was a turd. If the test had happened in 2015, it wouldn't be that bad because the new R1 is a fantastic bike. But this was several years ago, when the R1 was a turd.

I don't think the D16 was the benchmark for Ducati performance back when it was new; it surely isn't now.
 
conventional wisdom states that the Panigale R should be superior to the 1299/1299S. But I think Ducati may have created an interesting situation.

I hypothesize (call me a heretic) that the 1299S, with the Ohlins suspension set up correctly, plus matching modifications that the R has, like exhaust, ECU upmap, a few carbon fiber bits, lithium battery, basic stuff...which bike would be faster? in a straight line? on a track?

My take on the Panigale R is that Ducati found a way to evolve the power of the Panigale - add displacement. But the Panigale R still has to exist to homologate Ducati's race bikes in WSBK. Ducati homologation specials have always been very special bikes - no question there.

But is it actually faster than the "cheater" 1299S?

Y'all may now burn me at the stake ;)
 
kismetcapitan said:
conventional wisdom states that the Panigale R should be superior to the 1299/1299S. But I think Ducati may have created an interesting situation.

I hypothesize (call me a heretic) that the 1299S, with the Ohlins suspension set up correctly, plus matching modifications that the R has, like exhaust, ECU upmap, a few carbon fiber bits, lithium battery, basic stuff...which bike would be faster? in a straight line? on a track?

My take on the Panigale R is that Ducati found a way to evolve the power of the Panigale - add displacement. But the Panigale R still has to exist to homologate Ducati's race bikes in WSBK. Ducati homologation specials have always been very special bikes - no question there.

But is it actually faster than the "cheater" 1299S?

Y'all may now burn me at the stake ;)
Click to expand...

Probably throw a rod the case at some point, steel rods
heavier pitons
 
My guess is that you're correct in your heretical ways but only having owned an 1198sp and Diavel, I can't back it up with anything factual.
 
I actually asked the dealer about that before ordering my 1299S. I told him exactly what I am going to be doing with the bike and he told me to stick with the 1299.

He said every failure he has seen (motor wise) was on an 1199R. He is yet to see a motor failure (rod, etc) with an 1199 base or 1299.

The R costs a little more and they are a high volume dealer (also sell Kawi's, MVs, Triumphs and others). So he wasn't worried about trying to sell me the more expensive bike or looking out for the dealership, he was trying to lookout for me.
 
Chaotic said:
I actually asked the dealer about that before ordering my 1299S. I told him exactly what I am going to be doing with the bike and he told me to stick with the 1299.

He said every failure he has seen (motor wise) was on an 1199R. He is yet to see a motor failure (rod, etc) with an 1199 base or 1299.

The R costs a little more and they are a high volume dealer (also sell Kawi's, MVs, Triumphs and others). So he wasn't worried about trying to sell me the more expensive bike or looking out for the dealership, he was trying to lookout for me.
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Broome, those were early model Rs that threw rods. I would also attribute that to the Rs being raced/track days vs. Base/S model living on the street. I have an acquaintance that threw his rod on his R and he raced CCS Florida.
 
I'm sure any rod failures on an R has nothing to do with Ti rods
Just racing, oil, wear issues etc
Ducati Porsche Ferrari etc don't use Ti for the sake of it hence the 500rpm increase over std
1000 rpm > in racing try that with base and see how long a std stays together
Track / Race any engine it's going need regular tear downs, 15k is out the window for 1st major
 
Ljuice26 said:
Broome, those were early model Rs that threw rods. I would also attribute that to the Rs being raced/track days vs. Base/S model living on the street. I have an acquaintance that threw his rod on his R and he raced CCS Florida.
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Maybe so. But when I asked him, I specifically asked about track riding/racing.

I told him I wasn't worried about the guy who ruins his bike due to oil starvation from wheelies, or who drones down the interstate all day. I wanted to know about the success rate (in his experience) of Panigale's on the track. And he said by far the base/S model has proven to be more reliable (motor wise).

But of course, that is just his opinion based on his experience. Others may vary. :)
 
Chaotic said:
Maybe so. But when I asked him, I specifically asked about track riding/racing.

I told him I wasn't worried about the guy who ruins his bike due to oil starvation from wheelies, or who drones down the interstate all day. I wanted to know about the success rate (in his experience) of Panigale's on the track. And he said by far the base/S model has proven to be more reliable (motor wise).

But of course, that is just his opinion based on his experience. Others may vary. :)
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Also, consistently hitting the rev limiter and keeping it there is an issue.
 
I already have the full akra system on my 13R i'm thinking of switching the slips over on the 15R thoughts??
 
Ljuice26 said:
Also, consistently hitting the rev limiter and keeping it there is an issue.
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+1 as well as over-revving on downshifts. I'd say overall the Superquadro has been more reliable on the track than the Testastretta was, we don't see rod bearing and crank failures on the new bikes at the rate we used to see with the 848/1098/1198 race bikes. Biggest issue with Superquadro on the track is excessive heat.
 
Over-revving is likely the leading cause of issues because some people don't realize the rev limiter doesn't work on downshifts. If you are close to redline and downshift, you will drastically exceed redline. Do that too many times and you will have issues.
 

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