2015 R longetivity under hard track / race use?

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SuperDuc29 said:
?? 90db days? I thought Laguna Seca always have that limit. Which days do they not?
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you're right, they always have that limit...except for the free sound days that are reserved for the major sporting events like when WSBK comes to town.

no trackday provider has access to free sound days as there are only a handful available every year (like less than 10) and if they did have access, the rental for that day would be some crazy insane amount of money.

I hear Keigwins spends about $50k when they rent the track for a trackday (90db days).
 
990Glen said:
As an extra comment for track, I have recently been black flagged for noise with a totally standard R, yet guys with race systems and high flow filters etc on S bikes were getting no hassle at all.
I was hoping that buying the R would mitigate all the "extra" exhaust spends etc but it appears I am still going to have to mess about with pipes and tuning etc if I want to keep running at our local trackdays (105db ride by limit).
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I was at Snetterton last year. Stock 2015 R, they put it through at 112db on a 102db limit and said we just can't static test that, you'll have to do a ride by. Needless to say I passed a 98db ride by.

Go figure?? As the gentleman already said, wrong place wrong time!?!? :confused:
 
Thats the thing I often think with Ducati, even the Desmo. The bikes are very loud static but on full chat the low pitch sound often seems a lot less intrusive than a screaming inline four.
 
I'm surprise to hear the negatives. I thought they fair about the same. I wonder other hardcore track riders like Wilkson will say.
 
I popped into the dealers on the way home from a blast on the BMW on saturday and ended up talking myself into an R, waiting on confirmation but expected her to be here in around a month :)
We're considering racing next year so might trade in the 1199s and get a 959 or an 899 as well as that keeps the R away from racing so I dont invalidate the warranty, and the 959 would be more practical for getting onto tracks that have heavy noise restrictions plus general road riding as well. Will be a dream garage!
 
Longevity on a Ducati Superbike engine is all about the rev limit. Set the rev limit on an R engine to 11000 and it will last forever. Raise the rev limit on a base 1299 to 12500 and it will blow up at some point, even quicker than an R engine due to the heavier pistons. Only a few hundred rpm makes a huge difference due to the extreme forces with large pistons and high piston speeds. So it's not an "R" vs "S" vs "BASE" engine question, it's about which engine has the rev limit set where.
 
Also, using examples of various people who have blown up engines on the track is pretty much worthless for comparing engines. How the rider treats the engine has way more of an impact on the longevity than exactly which engine it is. In over 10 years of doing 25+ track days every year on Ducati Superbikes I have never blown an engine on one, with the exception of a 749R that had a crank snap in half due to a casting flaw (not rider induced). And I've had all manner of standard and R engines during that time. Yet I know other people I ride with who have gone through MULTIPLE engines during that same time. They almost always blame the engine, Ducati, the builder of the engine, the oil they ran, their zodiac sign, anything other than how they rode the bike. I chalk the difference up to the fact that I ride smoothly and in a way that I won't be bouncing off the rev limiter, and equally important that I won't be over-revving on downshifts. If you short-shift your Ducati and ride it like it was intended to be ridden (i.e. not like a 4-cyl) you stand a very strong chance of it lasting a good long time on the track, and it won't matter if it's an R or standard engine.
 
Well, I just picked up the 15R to join my 13 R. I agree with JARELJ about the revs - they are the hardest on the motor. Will definitely try to keep it under 11K.
 
jarelj said:
Also, using examples of various people who have blown up engines on the track is pretty much worthless for comparing engines. How the rider treats the engine has way more of an impact on the longevity than exactly which engine it is. In over 10 years of doing 25+ track days every year on Ducati Superbikes I have never blown an engine on one, with the exception of a 749R that had a crank snap in half due to a casting flaw (not rider induced). And I've had all manner of standard and R engines during that time. Yet I know other people I ride with who have gone through MULTIPLE engines during that same time. They almost always blame the engine, Ducati, the builder of the engine, the oil they ran, their zodiac sign, anything other than how they rode the bike. I chalk the difference up to the fact that I ride smoothly and in a way that I won't be bouncing off the rev limiter, and equally important that I won't be over-revving on downshifts. If you short-shift your Ducati and ride it like it was intended to be ridden (i.e. not like a 4-cyl) you stand a very strong chance of it lasting a good long time on the track, and it won't matter if it's an R or standard engine.
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Thanks for the input, much appreciated. One thing that springs to my mind is that my 1199 really doesn't lend itself to being rode in the 'traditional' Ducati manner as it doesn't have loads of push low down. It loves to rev and does so very quickly so it's quite difficult to never hit the redline. Whilst the 1299 has the best of both worlds and is quite phenomenal the 2015 1199R still needs to be rode in the revs like my 1199S. I really like the mixture of power,revs and engine size that the R has hence why I've decided to go for it over the slightly heavier feeling 1299.
 
jarelj said:
Also, using examples of various people who have blown up engines on the track is pretty much worthless for comparing engines. How the rider treats the engine has way more of an impact on the longevity than exactly which engine it is. In over 10 years of doing 25+ track days every year on Ducati Superbikes I have never blown an engine on one, with the exception of a 749R that had a crank snap in half due to a casting flaw (not rider induced). And I've had all manner of standard and R engines during that time. Yet I know other people I ride with who have gone through MULTIPLE engines during that same time. They almost always blame the engine, Ducati, the builder of the engine, the oil they ran, their zodiac sign, anything other than how they rode the bike. I chalk the difference up to the fact that I ride smoothly and in a way that I won't be bouncing off the rev limiter, and equally important that I won't be over-revving on downshifts. If you short-shift your Ducati and ride it like it was intended to be ridden (i.e. not like a 4-cyl) you stand a very strong chance of it lasting a good long time on the track, and it won't matter if it's an R or standard engine.
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Exactly . I hardly ever bounce off the limiter and short shift do regular oil changes and have zero issues . My first 1199 race bike is now at over 12000 race km still going strong .
 
jarelj said:
Also, using examples of various people who have blown up engines on the track is pretty much worthless for comparing engines. How the rider treats the engine has way more of an impact on the longevity than exactly which engine it is. In over 10 years of doing 25+ track days every year on Ducati Superbikes I have never blown an engine on one, with the exception of a 749R that had a crank snap in half due to a casting flaw (not rider induced). And I've had all manner of standard and R engines during that time. Yet I know other people I ride with who have gone through MULTIPLE engines during that same time. They almost always blame the engine, Ducati, the builder of the engine, the oil they ran, their zodiac sign, anything other than how they rode the bike. I chalk the difference up to the fact that I ride smoothly and in a way that I won't be bouncing off the rev limiter, and equally important that I won't be over-revving on downshifts. If you short-shift your Ducati and ride it like it was intended to be ridden (i.e. not like a 4-cyl) you stand a very strong chance of it lasting a good long time on the track, and it won't matter if it's an R or standard engine.
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That is a very valid point. In all honesty, I went through a few motors (I4's) when I first started racing. I had very little time on a bike in general when I started racing. I gridded up for my first race with less than 6 months of riding time since I first had to ask my buddy where the key goes and how I take off.

As far as piloting the motorcycle, my natural ability/speed far outweighed my knowledge and experience. I found myself getting into situations I wasn't prepared to handle, blowing motors, all kinds of .....

Finally after getting some good coaching (riding coach and quality instruction from my chief/engine builder), I learned how to ride safer, more consistent, and without blowing .... up.

Now I can get a full year out of a full blown Superbike motor, and then it will still be perfectly fine, it will only be refreshed for the sake of peak performance. I got almost 10,000 race and track miles out of my R1 before I had it refreshed (just to sell it).

So I agree completely, how you treat a motor makes all the difference in the world.
 
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While on the subject, everyone needs to be aware that the rev limiter does NOT work on downshifts. If you are near redline and downshift, you WILL over-rev the motor. Do that too many times and you will blow your .... up.
 
Chaotic said:
While on the subject, everyone needs to be aware that the rev limiter does NOT work on downshifts. If you are near redline and downshift, you WILL over-rev the motor. Do that too many times and you will blow your .... up.
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What's your opinion on hard downshifting without getting too close to rev limiter? The compression sound on this engine is too good.
 
Rpm said:
What's your opinion on hard downshifting without getting too close to rev limiter? The compression sound on this engine is too good.
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Downshifting without running into/over the rev limit isn't a big deal; it won't hurt anything.
 
Chaotic said:
While on the subject, everyone needs to be aware that the rev limiter does NOT work on downshifts. If you are near redline and downshift, you WILL over-rev the motor. Do that too many times and you will blow your .... up.
Click to expand...

I did not know this. Thanks, Chris.
 

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