2016 Panigale S Throttle issue

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speedy14 said:
Originally Posted by nanoplastic View Post
I picked up a 2016 Panigale 1299 S a few weeks ago and finally had a chance to ride it on Sunday (I work 6 days a week and weather hasn't been all that great lately), and put about 40 miles on it.

Today I am sitting here contemplating on selling the stupid bike. And here is the reason why. While riding on the street like a normal human being, the bike simply doesn't work. Every turn I make on the street is a gamble with my life on this thing. Its nearly impossible to modulate the god damn throttle to make the POS turn smoothly without it bucking or surging, even in WET MODE with all the electronic aids turned on! What is the point of riding a bike that has such a huge learning curve and high risk factor? Sure, if you're a dare devil or an adrenaline junky, the story might be different. But I am not willing to take that kind of risk with my life. And having paid close to thirty thousand dollars for this ....... garbage, using it only for track seems like a huge waste, because I paid a hefty premium for those ridiculously unusable headlights, turn signals and mirrors. In every aspect, this bike is nothing more than a showoff piece.

Some people say this bike is an "angry machine". Well, currently I am angrier than it, because I bought into the hype. Last time I rode a Ducati was when they came out with 1198 with a big hype surrounding it just like they do with all of their new bikes. When I test rode it, I absolutely hated it. I just don't understand their logic and their concept of making gazillion ft.lbs of torque at low rpm range which cannot be predictably controlled. Ducati chose the wrong path with their engine concept. To me, it was a ...... up design from the start and they were stuck with it. So they had to patch it up as much as they possible could, wrap it up in pretty plastic covers and had their marketing team go to work.

And so many years later, they still carry on their stupid concept. It doesn't matter riders couldn't handle 60ft.lb of torque 5 years ago, ducati is going to make a 100ft.lb torque machine where riders only used 5% of its power on the pavement they ride 90% of the time. And they didn't care that the 80% of its power could not be properly managed on the street, because its a "race bike", "you have to be angry to ride it" (are you ....... promoting road rage?), "just ride it faster" (and kill yourself)?, get an aftermarket ECU modulator (which may not work) and pay another grand on top of what you already paid for the "most advanced bike in the world?" c'mon! Give me a break!

Ducatis arrogance is appalling. Their attitude is simply irresponsible and it clearly shows that Ducati as a company does not care about the safety of its consumers, but rather consider their customers to be a bunch of ....... with a death wish who will eventually Darwin themselves out using the crude tools they've provided.

I foresee that Ducati will dump their engine design in the near future, because as I have mentioned, they were stuck with a ...... up design by hiring a monkey for their engineer, and soon move on to a completely different design or follow suit with other manufactures and admit their flaws.

I had a 2011 BMW S1000rr and by comparison, its a far better bike than the Panigale.
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Step 1: SELL Bike ASAP

Step 2: Invest 50% of proceeds (over the next 12 months) by participating in as many riding schools in your area as possible. Judging by your feedback, I wouldn't trust you driving a minivan at 55 MPH on a straight highway.
DO NOT GET ON A BIKE or you WILL DIE soon

Step 3: Next time you "invest" $20,000 - $25,000 on ANYTHING, do your research (and no, watch a couple of comparison videos on youtube doesn't count), know YOUR limits and skill level and above all, stay away from fast machines in general.

Anyone who confuses smooth/controlled riding with "daredevil/adraline junkie" is in the wrong sport and hobby

In the right hands, even a 260+HP MotoGP bike can be ridden smooth and without the fear of "dying on every turn".

I will say good luck to you, but the only indication if future is the past, and people usually repeat one bad decision with another.
 
And here I am thinking they made the throttle bottom end too tame after the ECU update after my 7.5k service on the 1199r.
 
speedy14 said:
Nanoplastic I feel your pain! :(

I had the very SAME issue with my bike.
I want to state this right up front.. It has NOTHING to do with the way you ride... Others on this forum that are telling you that "it is you not the bike" obviously didn't have the same problems as your bike has or my bike had...Others on the forum told me to "just live with it" or that that is just the way the Ducati's are and that was part of their "Character"

.. Well I called ........! Mine did the same damned thing and worse.
Mine also would have the delightful problem of the throttle sticking at around 3000 rpm when coming to a stop light (then suddenly drop off).. That is very dangerous in a corner.. :eek:

Like you, I had to keep it above 5000 rpm or it would buck and act like it was going to stall... I went through a lot of crap and countless times in the shop while the dealer tried adjusting the throttle body syncs and even reprogrammed the ECU with a Nexxer unit. All to no avail... I even purchased the new Akropovic exhaust with the so called Racing "UPMAP" no big change... That cost another $3600.00:cool:

Finally I fixed the surging problem by installing a RapidBike racing module which auto tunes the bike as you ride.. The problem is that Ducati had to lean these bikes out so much to pass emissions and noise tests that they are very stiffled.. If you try to use most fuel modules the bikes factory ECU will auto correct itself if you try to use a Power Commander or Bazzaz unit. The Ducati factory has made these bikes a very proprietary machine that will only accept certain modifications....I guess they dont like others to get into the act.. Hell I could not even find an aftermarket windshield that will fit the 1299... It is different than the 1199..

Well I finally got mine working right and it has nothing to do with the modifications from the Ducati dealer etc..
The ONLY modification I found that works for the surging issue on my bike is the Rapidbike Racing Module. It comes with a good base map and ignition map. You hook it up and ride it.. then it starts reprogramming itself as you ride.. It REALLY works well and is the best value for your dollar with this machine.

It actually will adjust the low to mid throttle throttle mapping if you hook it up to the stock low band O2 sensors.. The others like Power Commander and Bazzaz do not adjust these off throttle areas much.. They primarily adjust the mid to higher throttle settings only ** I also installed the Sprint filter which flows much better.. My bike is a TOTALLY different machine now and runs the way it should have from the factory.. It is a shame that a guy spends that much money and has to spend another $900 to $1000 just to get the bike to run right . It is atrocious how they de tune these bikes to meet the EPA etc. regulations from the factory..
Now all I have to contend with is the problem of the bike dying on me at intersections or parking lots or in the middle of traffic etc. every once in a while out of the blue with NO warning....Evidently, that is a problem that the 1199 and 1299's also have.. If it hasn't happened to you then you are lucky..
BTW.. The dealer finally figured out why it was having the throttle stick on de acceleration in first gear.. After they had replaced the ECU the complete throttle bodies etc. The mechanic tried re programming the ABS and traction control programs and THAT fixed it.. It only took 5 months to finally get it right..
Now all I have to do is figure out why it suddenly dies on me in the middle of traffic about three times a week..! Oh well after all it IS a Ducati right? I guess we are just supposed to put up with its "idiosyncrasy's" Kinda like dating a beautiful Italian Supermodel Beautiful but you have to put up with a lot of expense and other .... to keep her.. LOL

Good Luck I love my bike (when it is running well) but to tell the truth, If I had ANY INKLING of what I would be going through I would never had bought it either.. The Japanese bikes are so much more reliable and trouble free.

Those Italian's could learn a thing or two from them.. ;)

Speedy
Click to expand...

You can also try turning downshift off. That fixed my random stalling problems. Ducati headquarters told my dealer that and told them to turn it off as there is a bug of some sort for streets.
 
whoa, glad I got the warning!! after 4500 miles of daily commuting that has felt like ... every time, I now know I've been on a death trap just waiting to spring!!
 
jagducativ4 said:
You can also try turning downshift off. That fixed my random stalling problems. Ducati headquarters told my dealer that and told them to turn it off as there is a bug of some sort for streets.
Click to expand...

I should not have to turn the downshift off! :mad: Ducati should fix their ...... electronic problems. We pay a LOT of money for these bikes A LOT MORE that any Japanese bike yet they have much more problems..

I'm going to buy a new 2016 ZX10r so I will have something reliable and fast to ride when the Duc is in the shop (which is pretty regular) LOL

Speedy
 
You just got a Friday production .... bike.

Majority of us on here including myself have never had these problems you speak of. Maybe some minor cosmetic stuff but nothing major. Most people have experienced stalling issues including myself but that went away after my 1st service. I haven't removed the charcoal canister and my bike has never stalled since the 1st service, and that was 2yrs ago. Therefore, I'm not convinced that removing the charcoal canister has anything to do with the bike stalling or not since some people still experience stalling issues and they have already removed their canister from the bike.

Anywho, regardless of these problems that may or may not exist, you grown men need to stop bitchin n complaining about how unhappy/unsatisfied you are with the overall product. If you don't like it and feel that the cost isn't justified and Ducati sucks, easy fix....sell your POS and go back to what tickles your fancy. If it's not a big enough problem to ditch the bike and you can live with the problems the bike gives you, mention the troubles you have come across for other forum members to be aware of in case they come across the same problems and live with it. Bashing any 1 manufacturer doesn't do ..... People are buying more Panigales than ever before so obviously the benefits outweigh the drawbacks or people just don't give a .... and will live with it.
 
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Well, Ducati DOES listen to their customers but which ones? They can't be everything and have to stick to what their philosophy or creed is about sport bikes. They don't need to make an inline 4 because just about everyone else does. The world NEEDS a 90 deg V Twin like Ducati makes to help make it more interesting to humans (I don't think the dogs care, they'll chase anything). LACK of throttle response would get me bitching. I had adjustment issues within the first few hundred miles but LEARNED how to get the best out of this bike (I can't ride it like my Harleys) and it does things for me like no other bike and I have ridden plenty of other premium sport bikes.

It is an expensive bike to own but its uniqueness makes it a joy to own anyway. In other words, the good stuff outweighs the bad. OP was too impatient and unwilling to learn. Didn't he demo one before buying? That would have quickly told him he's on the wrong bike. I was presold on my demo ride and the bike didn't do anything to disappoint me.
 
double0 said:
You just got a Friday production .... bike.

Majority of us on here including myself have never had these problems you speak of. Maybe some minor cosmetic stuff but nothing major. Most people have experienced stalling issues including myself but that went away after my 1st service. I haven't removed the charcoal canister and my bike has never stalled since the 1st service, and that was 2yrs ago. Therefore, I'm not convinced that removing the charcoal canister has anything to do with the bike stalling or not since some people still experience stalling issues and they have already removed their canister from the bike.

Anywho, regardless of these problems that may or may not exist, you grown men need to stop bitchin n complaining about how unhappy/unsatisfied you are with the overall product. If you don't like it and feel that the cost isn't justified and Ducati sucks, easy fix....sell your POS and go back to what tickles your fancy. If it's not a big enough problem to ditch the bike and you can live with the problems the bike gives you, mention the troubles you have come across for other forum members to be aware of in case they come across the same problems and live with it. Bashing any 1 manufacturer doesn't do ..... People are buying more Panigales than ever before so obviously the benefits outweigh the drawbacks or people just don't give a .... and will live with it.
Click to expand...



Well Double O

It looks like you must have bought a good one. Congratulations!!
However some of us have had a lot of problems from day one..( I am one of them) I have persevered and stuck it out through a lot of ........ to be able to ride my 1299 (at least some of the time when it was not in the shop) I have owned mine since April 2015 and it has continuously had pretty serious issues.. Some of them (like the throttle sticking at 3000 rpm for about a second while idling down to a stop (which is pretty damned dangerous BTW) have finally been worked out after I had a new ECU and complete throttle body replaced etc. (after many times in the shop over a 5 month period). I STILL have a stalling problem and unlike yours mine has NEVER gone away..

As far as your remark about people bitching on this forum that actually had the gall to complain because their new $25K bike ran like .... and actually stalled on them in the middle of the intersections etc.
Who the F--K made you the king of this forum? :mad:

I happen to agree that they have the right to complain. I though this forum was all about people discussing their issues with their 1229 Panigales
And from the picture in your Avatar I see that you actually have a white 2013 1199..? And unlike you, I am riding a 1299 S not a 1199 and there are some differences in the two. Although both bikes are very similar in most ways there are many differences in the ECU and programming and other electronic features that your bike doesn't even offer. Therefore some of us actually do have some real grievances about their bikes.

No one is bashing any one Brand so much as showing their total aggravation with a bike that has some issues that can be downright friggin Dangerous.:eek:. I see many are quick to blame the riders.. I would imagine that few will jump up and purchase a Ducati 1299 Panigale as their first bike.
Certainly not all but the majority of 1299 Panigale purchasers are not beginners. Most have enough experience with sport bikes and know how to ride well enough to tell when a bike is surging and bucking and wanting to stall when it is below 5000 rpm that something is not right. Most will NOT appreciate the so called "Ducati Character" when it stalls on them in the middle of an intersection with cars coming at them..I know I didn't. Personally I think that Ducati KNOWS about the problem and simply doesn't care (or is unable to actually repair it because it would cost a lot of money)..
They have built the motor to run at the very limit of its capabilities and still pass the stringent EPA and European C.A.R.B standards etc.
The bike is very leaned out and it is very difficult to get some of them running right unless you do like I finally ended up doing and spend extra money and add an aftermarket Rapidbike module etc.

I think you might not be so condescending and smug if your bike had some of these problems.. If you consider just "putting up with it" and riding it when it is constantly stalling then you are an .....! So inclosing if you dont like the way others a "bitching and complaining" then why dont you go back to the 1199 forum and stay off our site until you step up an purchase a 1299.

Nuff Said!:mad:

Speedy:cool:
 
Speedy....

There is a way to address an issue or bring it to light so that other members may also be aware of certain issues in case they experience similar problems. While you may have had some serious problems with your bike, your approach hasn't been the best. You must have also missed the first post and the bashing of Ducati as a brand. Hell, you've even talked .... about Ducati and how Japanese bikes are problem free and how your zx10 is blah blah blah. Don't contradict yourself.

Ya know, for a man of your age, you sure do deal with forums discussions in a very juvenile way at times. No one made me king of any forums nor do I pretend to be one but you don't seem to get the point of a forum so let me try n clarify it for you so that maybe....just maybe it might make some sense to you.

While you have the right to bash a manufacturer or talk about how much better one manufacturer is over the next just because you paid a premium for a bike but received a less than satisfying bike or you feel like you should get a premium result in a bike, it doesn't fix ..... You're experiencing problems and the dealer hasn't helped resolve your issues? Bring it to light on the forums. Even if no one else has a fix for it, when someone finally does, they just might post it so that the next person will know what to do if they encounter the same. This forum is full of great info. We are super lucky to have members who have dropped boatloads of money into their bikes modifying things and/or repairing bikes after a wreck and sharing some valuable info along the way. More importantly, the leniency in forum moderation here makes this place a pleasant place for people to visit, even if it's just a place for them to visit to make their day go by at work or wherever. When some folks continue to bash a bike or a brand over n over, .... gets old and is counterproductive.

Nobody is tryin to convince you of dealing with the "Ducati character." Whatever the hell that is. I don't give 2 ..... about Ducati as a brand. I had 2 zx6r's and my last bike was a daytona 675 and recently added my cbr next to my 1199. Nobody holds a gun to someones head n tells them deal with it. People choose to deal with the Ducati issues or jump ship. It's really that simple. I get it....you like the bike a lot, or wanna love it cuz it's the best lookin bike out there but if you feel cheated because you had to spend extra money to get the bike to run the way it should have out the factory, then you've got no one else to blame but yourself.

One thing is for certain....if I experienced the exact same issues as you have, my approach wouldn't be anything like yours. Either I deal with it until I find a fix or I get rid of it n buy another bike. I've never test ridden any bike I've owned. I buy bikes based on visual appeal so I don't need best of the best performance out there. All sportbikes are very closely competitive with one another so the variable is usually the rider, not the bike. And I'm a grandma on 2 wheels and proud of it cuz I'm still enjoyin it just as much if not more than some of the fastest guys on here.
 
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nanoplastic said:
yes, and don't forget about the random engine stalls. Mine happened on the ramp mid corner getting on the freeway. That must be a special feature of the Panigale too right? Is that something I have to learn to adapt to as well?
Thanks to those with positive encouragement and feedback. Unfortunately, I have made up my mind to not "just deal with it". Bike is going to be returned first thing tomorrow. There are far better bikes out there.

Instead of making the 1299 more powerful, Ducati should've worked on fixing the underlying issues I have mentioned in this thread. I bought the second generation of 1299 S, which is the 2016 model, and it still has stalling issues. In my book, this show nothing but a poor workmanship and irresponsibility. They know the issue is there, but choose to ignore it and still push the product out to consumers. This is unacceptable and I refuse to depend my life on it.
Click to expand...

I think you mistake underlying issues for characteristic of a v-twin engine.

There is no denying that the 1199 and 1299 (not as much); lack mid range torque and there does feel like a surge of power after certain rpm.

Design limitation from space, money, regulations (laws) means that Ducati are not ignoring the issues, improves where made from the 1199 to 1299 but again ducati is limited in what they can do, if they could legally sell the bike with a full akra system and proper fueling they would but then the bike would never pass emissions tests, noises regulations etc etc

Ducati 1199/1299 isn't for everyone and they do require you to understand and respect the characteristics of the bike and ride accordingly.

I daily rode my 1199 for almost 2 years without any modifications and learnt that in low rpm i needed to be gently on the throttle and easy it on when coming out of corners. Compare that to bmw s1k and hp4 i rode for weeks i could be much more lazy on my throttle control due to the linear power band.

Regarding the "Stalling issues" that is something a experiences alot in the beginning and still happens now and then. My dealership could give me no explanation and general custom services was poor and i do think Ducati need to address this. However my tuner work with me and the bike and found that it was again a fueling issue which can be easily fix if you want to.

May i suggest you test ride an 899, power is alot more linear, generally easier to ride on the street and may be more to your liking
 
The problems that the op was bitchin about and that Speedy has been sharing with us are nothing to do with Ducati characteristics or with power/torque delivery of V (or L) twins. Look at my bike history below. I have experienced the same issues of jerky throttle at very low speed and some stalling. I have full DP Akrapovic with up map and Sprint filter from the R. The filter made a difference but has not eliminated the issue. I'm considering Rapidbike next. I am not a Ducati novice and the 1299 or at least my 1299s is different in this respect from my 1199s and every other Ducati I have owned. The factory does need to address his. It is a real issue.
 
Joker1199 said:
The problems that the op was bitchin about and that Speedy has been sharing with us are nothing to do with Ducati characteristics or with power/torque delivery of V (or L) twins. Look at my bike history below. I have experienced the same issues of jerky throttle at very low speed and some stalling. I have full DP Akrapovic with up map and Sprint filter from the R. The filter made a difference but has not eliminated the issue. I'm considering Rapidbike next. I am not a Ducati novice and the 1299 or at least my 1299s is different in this respect from my 1199s and every other Ducati I have owned. The factory does need to address his. It is a real issue.
Click to expand...


up map is a bandaid fix and will not solve anything. I do not understand why people spend big dollars on a full exhaust system but don't spent the money on getting an ecu and full tune.

bolting the full Akrapovic on my 1199 without any tuning made very little different to the jerky throttle. with a full custom dyno tune using tuneboy i have pretty much eliminated all jerky throttle.

just to give you an idea here is the throttle mapping done on an 1299 using tuneboy; the before and after speak for itself. Done using 20% throttle

11209690_593344044147336_3612495907146426659_n.jpg
 
Thanks. As I said, Rapidbike is my next call but I'm kind of with Speedy, we shouldn't need to go there to get the bike to work. It should do that out of the crate. By the way, the issues are not at anything like 20% throttle; more like 1-3%.
 
Joker1199 said:
Thanks. As I said, Rapidbike is my next call but I'm kind of with Speedy, we shouldn't need to go there to get the bike to work. It should do that out of the crate. By the way, the issues are not at anything like 20% throttle; more like 1-3%.
Click to expand...

Due to emissions laws, they can't come the way we want from the factory. A quick reflash is all that's needed. I don't know why more people don't understand this.
 
Rogue said:
Due to emissions laws, they can't come the way we want from the factory. A quick reflash is all that's needed. I don't know why more people don't understand this.
Click to expand...

So why won't Ducati fess up to that instead of pretending there isn't a problem?
 
Joker1199 said:
So why won't Ducati fess up to that instead of pretending there isn't a problem?
Click to expand...

You expect a company to come out and say they keep a bike at a certain number of rpms at 30mph in order to get around emissions laws?

I know they're owned by VW, but c'mon...
 
If they know that they have these issues why do we need to pay for them ? They should be free .
 
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