"A few years away......"

Casey Stoner has actually said the frameless concept was viable and wasn't the main issue. It was long speculated that the bike just needed a total overhaul from a geometry standpoint that didn't happen until the GP15 for whatever reasons. There are tons of interesting articles from the past few years discussing the Ducati GP problems and potential issues.

Even some interesting tidbits from the debut of the GP15 this year as to what they were going for from a design perspective when they changed the chassis up.

https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/02/17/analyzing_the_ducati_desmosedici_gp15_sm.html

I just don't see how they're going to get 100+lb/ft torque out of a 4 cylinder. The Desmosedici RR made about 85-ish - on par with other 200hp literbikes currently on the market.

Maybe the motor will differentiate itself from the crowd by running a 16,000rpm redline reliably

And re: the GP15, opinions are polarized, but I like the winglets. I liked them on the GP10. Someone oughta make aftermarket winglets for the Panigale!

shakazulu12 said:

I would sell a testicle for a Brow designed, GP derived lame ass perimiter framed Ducati.

Click to expand...

Can you ride a GP Ducati with only one testicle?

Ljuice26 said:

What I don't want to see is the new bike picking up 25lbs +. I love the bike because its so lite. Keep it aesthetically beautiful, lightweight, V4, conventional swingarm, 205HP +, 100ftlbs. of torque +, and you will have sales.....

Click to expand...

It's called the Desmosedici.

jyli19 said:

Can you ride a GP Ducati with only one testicle?

Click to expand...

Sure! Besides, if you've been riding Panigales for a while, the ones you have will have been thoroughly overcooked to the point of being useless anyway, so you might as well flip one on eBay or CL for gas money...

Ljuice26 said:

What I don't want to see is the new bike picking up 25lbs +. I love the bike because its so lite. Keep it aesthetically beautiful, lightweight, V4, conventional swingarm, 205HP +, 100ftlbs. of torque +, and you will have sales.....

Click to expand...

Yeah keep the frameless design and keep it light. Just a drop a V4 into it with serious power and you've got a winner.

kismetcapitan said:

I just don't see how they're going to get 100+lb/ft torque out of a 4 cylinder. The Desmosedici RR made about 85-ish - on par with other 200hp literbikes currently on the market.

Maybe the motor will differentiate itself from the crowd by running a 16,000rpm redline reliably

And re: the GP15, opinions are polarized, but I like the winglets. I liked them on the GP10. Someone oughta make aftermarket winglets for the Panigale!

Click to expand...

Yea, maybe that Mclaren guy from 2 years ago can show up again! Ducati.org was on fire! when he was posting his winglet ideas.

jyli19 said:

It's called the Desmosedici.

Click to expand...

The Desmosedici RR made 85lb/ft torque at the crank - nowhere near the 107lb/ft that the 1299 makes. It was capable of making over 200hp with a race ECU and GP exhaust - 1299 makes 205hp stock.

People have gotten a lot more than 200hp out of a D16RR. But there are those pesky 15,000 mile engine rebuild intervals...

kismetcapitan said:

I just don't see how they're going to get 100+lb/ft torque out of a 4 cylinder. The Desmosedici RR made about 85-ish - on par with other 200hp literbikes currently on the market.

Click to expand...

And let's not forget the caterwauling from the 1098/1198 crowd regarding the torque curve on the 1199 when it debuted (All that "Not a real Duc because it doesn't have that grunt down low" nonsense).

Imagine the shrieking if Ducati threw out a road-going SBK with even *less* low/mid-range grunt.

sport bike sales are down. prices are up.
horsepower of the average 1000cc production sport bike has skyrocketed but we as consumers have been dulled to the actual numbers.
The standard electronics on the average sport bike have reached an almost motogp level and again we as consumers have become so accustomed to it we've lost perspective.
the term "production racing" doesn't have the same ring to it it did say 15 years ago.

on the flip side motgp has lost its niche in that it is using trickle down of advancement for the manufactures to make monday sales .
which imo is not what it (prototype racing) was intended to do .

so its like wsbk has lost its production racing status and motogp has lost its prototype racing status .

Charliem90 said:

And let's not forget the caterwauling from the 1098/1198 crowd regarding the torque curve on the 1199 when it debuted (All that "Not a real Duc because it doesn't have that grunt down low" nonsense).

Imagine the shrieking if Ducati threw out a road-going SBK with even *less* low/mid-range grunt.

Click to expand...

get five Ducatisti together and you'll hear:
- bemoaning over the death of the dry clutch
- why no air-cooled Supersport?
and it goes on....

traditional swingarms perform better and are lighter than SSSA. But Ducati learned a bitter sales lesson with the 999 - no traditional swingarms, and don't stack the headlights vertically

I personally love the SSSA, and like most consumers who buy Ducati products and at the end of the day, are where Ducati gets money to survive - we like SSSA generally speaking, and we can't ride fast or hard enough to start finding the weakness between single-sided versus double-sided. Davies and Giugliano can ride around it, as well as the better Superstock riders - us street riders will never know the difference...except that it looks way cooler, for many of us.

But as Ducati continues to evolve, who knows what "essential" Ducati elements will disappear? Dry clutches are gone, air-cooling is all but out, the Panigale doesn't have a trellis frame, more models are appearing with double-sided swingarms.

Hell, the MotoGP GP15's V-4 isn't even in an L configuration anymore. It's an actual V, like Honda's. Is NOTHING sacred????