Austin Racing Inconel Install - Part II

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Stw said:
Nature of the beast... :).. No complaints here though... We are all free to read,,ignore or leave..lol

Ok...Question here... I guess here is as good a place as any...

Given AR's (Rich) attitude and behaviour etc on here (and other places) do you guys think Rich should apologise to everyone on here?? My thoughts are that he was rude unprofessional and generally abusive to many people and whilst it is obvious how a lot of people will feel about this question I am intrigued to know how members that have been such stalwart supporters of him all along are feeling now???

Please note I am not nor would I ever advocate or support a ban...
Click to expand...

I dont think he will.
 
WAfatboy said:
So to be clear this was the setup:

- unplugged rear wheel speed sensor.
- high speed air into front of bike. (couldn't stand in front of it)
- turned off ABS, EBC and DTC
- ran in Track mode
- ran 98 octane gas.
- bike was nicely warmed up after 2.5 hr ride
- Tuneboy tune

The graphs attached represent my bike with AR Inconel system compared with a customer 1199 of Bunbury Ducati plus one against their 1199 with full system. I am going to post TQ graphs in a separate post. Neither bike was tuned.

1. Stock standard 1199 pipes
2. Termi Slip-ons
3. Termi 70mm full system
4. Termi 70mm full system on Bunbury Ducati bike

The runs on the other bikes were performed on the same dyno but on different days.

I'm pressed for time now so I'm going to post the three compares plus the TQ charts.

The executive summary is:

AR Inconel: 190.90HP/94.80TQ
Stock standard 1199 pipes: 183.80HP/91.11TQ
Termi Slip-ons: 186.91HP/93.18
Termi 70mm Full (latest up-map): 189.78HP/? (sorry missed the TQ chart)
Termi 70mm full system on Bunbury Ducati bike: 193.75HP/96.02TQ

Four key takeouts for me:

1. There is very little between the AR system and my Termi slips, as we saw on our previous dyno run but there is a not insignificant hole in power and an even bigger one in TQ in favour of the Termi Slips.

2. Overall the AR system HP wise performs better than the customer bike from 6800 onwards (tight towards the end). There is a bigger hole between 6-7 on the AR system. (again don't have the TQ graph, will have to source.

3. Compared to the Termi full system, apart from that hole 6-7, the AR pipes can perform better where it counts, although the BD bike did better at peak HP, and if they could sort that hole then it would be a good alternative with sound and weight taken into account.

4. Compared to the Slip-ons the AR system doesn't look great value as overall the Termi-slips perform better from a normal riding perspective.

So on balance I am happy that the AR system has delivered comparable numbers as a full system alternative. Do I wish someone else had spent the $5k to learn this before I ditched the Slips, absolutely :D
Click to expand...

Jariva said:
Exactly what I meant.
Click to expand...

Jariva

Does this not give you all you need??? Not sure whats open for discussion..
 
people,

it's nothing more than common courtesy that is being asked for. i don't think any of you would appreciate his/her own thread or questions seeking help responded to in the same fashion that we're seeing here and in other (related) threads. if it were to continue, and at the end of the day, there would be very few individuals left at this portal, and its worth would be close to nothing.

thanks,
 
Jariva said:
I will give up.
Click to expand...

Well why dont you try posting something constructive that adds/fuels a debate...Instead of just whining??? Sorry but I don't get the issue... just leaving comments that the thread isn't going your way is an exercise in futility...
 
WAfatboy said:
Up toyou guys how you roll. Seriously though this is why its so hard to find relevant info on this site and we get 30+ page threads that have 5 useful pages.
Click to expand...

But there were 5 useful! rotflmao

(taken from Pirates of the Carribean - "But you have heard of me" - fav quote!)
 
Last edited:
Stw said:
Well why dont you try posting something constructive that adds/fuels a debate...Instead of just whining??? Sorry but I don't get the issue... just leaving comments that the thread isn't going your way is an exercise in futility...
Click to expand...

Which was your last post number you posted a constructive thing that added something to any debate? I am not whining, you guys are whining and it makes so tedious to read these threads.

Anyway, I got the info I wanted from WAf so no more whining from me.
 
Stw said:
Nature of the beast... :).. No complaints here though... We are all free to read,,ignore or leave..lol

Ok...Question here... I guess here is as good a place as any...

Given AR's (Rich) attitude and behaviour etc on here (and other places) do you guys think Rich should apologise to everyone on here?? My thoughts are that he was rude unprofessional and generally abusive to many people and whilst it is obvious how a lot of people will feel about this question I am intrigued to know how members that have been such stalwart supporters of him all along are feeling now???

Please note I am not nor would I ever advocate or support a ban...
Click to expand...

Disregarding the back and forth between the few of you, and the flame fanning happening in both threads, the results have been clear as day.

The AR exhaust "tuned" performs as Rich has said it would. Following his setup parameters, WAf was able to reproduce his results.

Can't really argue that it does not perform as advertised untuned, because it wasn't tested untuned on Bunbury's Dyno.

Does it produce more power than the Termi equivalent? That's a great question. It appears the answer is no. But keep in mind that it was claimed max performance is achieved with 0 baffles installed. To claim the system out performs anything else though is beyond a stretch...

Does he Rich offer a great product? I would say yes. The AR exhaust is an excellent option to the Termi Full and probably the Akrapovic unobtanium system.

Rapid Bikes modules (preloaded with maps) do not seem to work for anyone outside the UK. Rich has some work to do on that item and I would guess Rapid Bikes modules will not sell well outside the UK. So one should likely spend their earnings on another tuning method. If one has to dyno tune the RB module outside the UK, may as well look into Tuneboy, PC, or Rexxer.

Do you need a p#&&y guard I mean heat shield?:p I would say no, if you use the 1199 for its intended purpose while wearing leathers. On the street, though, you'd be crazy to not have one. As we all know, the option will soon be available. It really should be included for free though.

This whole talk of banning is tomfoolery. I'm sure no one here gets along with everyone. Buttons were pushed and mud was slung. WAf got his results. The AR exhaust is a nice piece. Pick the exhaust you want and be happy. We all ride Ducs and tomorrow's a new day.
 
Notec

Do we need to rehash this again???? I mean.. Really???
 
Notec said:
...Does it produce more power than the Termi equivalent? That's a great question. It appears the answer is no. But keep in mind that it was claimed max performance is achieved with 0 baffles installed. To claim the system out performs anything else though is beyond a stretch...

Does he Rich offer a great product? I would say yes. The AR exhaust is an excellent option to the Termi Full and probably the Akrapovic unobtanium system...
Click to expand...

After reading (wading) through both of these threads, this is what I've taken from them.
 
Notec said:
Disregarding the back and forth between the few of you, and the flame fanning happening in both threads, the results have been clear as day.

The AR exhaust "tuned" performs as Rich has said it would. Following his setup parameters, WAf was able to reproduce his results.

Can't really argue that it does not perform as advertised untuned, because it wasn't tested untuned on Bunbury's Dyno.

Does it produce more power than the Termi equivalent? That's a great question. It appears the answer is no. But keep in mind that it was claimed max performance is achieved with 0 baffles installed. To claim the system out performs anything else though is beyond a stretch...

Does he Rich offer a great product? I would say yes. The AR exhaust is an excellent option to the Termi Full and probably the Akrapovic unobtanium system.

Rapid Bikes modules (preloaded with maps) do not seem to work for anyone outside the UK. Rich has some work to do on that item and I would guess Rapid Bikes modules will not sell well outside the UK. So one should likely spend their earnings on another tuning method. If one has to dyno tune the RB module outside the UK, may as well look into Tuneboy, PC, or Rexxer.

Do you need a p#&&y guard I mean heat shield?:p I would say no, if you use the 1199 for its intended purpose while wearing leathers. On the street, though, you'd be crazy to not have one. As we all know, the option will soon be available. It really should be included for free though.

This whole talk of banning is tomfoolery. I'm sure no one here gets along with everyone. Buttons were pushed and mud was slung. WAf got his results. The AR exhaust is a nice piece. Pick the exhaust you want and be happy. We all ride Ducs and tomorrow's a new day.
Click to expand...

Did AR email you what to say? This whole statement is wrong in sooooo many ways and soooo unnecessary - no need for you to attempt rehashing in AR's favor, Waf's numbers speak for themselves.
 
Trauma said:
Did AR email you what to say? This whole statement is wrong in sooooo many ways and soooo unnecessary - no need for you to attempt rehashing in AR's favor, Waf's numbers speak for themselves.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are correct. His numbers speak for themselves. Can't argue that, they are on page 1...

PS. Don't think anyone here has my email address..
 
Stw said:
How can you say the AR system does as claimed??? Rich consistently claimed it out performed the Termi Full system..+5HP if memory serves... Even you admit that isnt true... I'm not going to waste time dragging all this up again...If you want to see the AR system as you do then so be it...:confused:

I am done with this charade... No matter what evidence is produced.. no matter what details of previous dubious claims and falsehoods are shown it appears that you continue to look kindly at AR... Frankly I am dumbfounded.... But its your opinion and your have every right to it...
Click to expand...

I am not looking kindly at anyone but am looking kindly everyone. Personally I think all the bickering is f#$%ing stupid. So I choose to ignore it and hold everyone in the same light, as an enthusiast, a member, a brother, a sister, etc...

So I have no choice but to look at the DATA and only the DATA!!! Get passed what can not be proven, like I did, and pay attention to what can be proven. WAfs AR results back up Rich's AR results. Does it not?

The Termi full with latest Upmap produces identical performance and also appears to exceed the AR in some areas. Does it not?
 
The AR exhaust "tuned" performs as Rich has said it would. Following his setup parameters, WAf was able to reproduce his results.

The Termi full with latest Upmap produces identical performance and also appears to exceed the AR in some areas. Does it not?

How do you reconcile these 2 statements you have made?? I'm confused...
 
Stw said:
The AR exhaust "tuned" performs as Rich has said it would. Following his setup parameters, WAf was able to reproduce his results.

The Termi full with latest Upmap produces identical performance and also appears to exceed the AR in some areas. Does it not?

How do you reconcile these 2 statements you have made?? I'm confused...
Click to expand...
Compare the AR exhaust data below to WAfs AR exhaust latest results, you will see that they match. Guidelines were followed, results were similar, no?
4654d1366208067-ar-inconel-install-image.jpg


And now compare the Termi results on page 1 to WAf's results. The Termi with new Upmap performed similarly but was superior in some areas, no?

If anything I say is incorrect or I am misinterpreting the data, by all means point it out.

PS. Graph above from post #47 of part1 of this saga.
 
Stw said:
View attachment 4982


Look at the dip at 5-7k on Carlos Dyno and compare to AR's.... Not only is the AR poorer than the Termi in this region despite Rich claim of a massive improvement the final peak HP is almost identical.. So no..in my view the AR did not perform as it was claimed to do... or am I missing something???
Click to expand...
I see the dip, and have acknowledged all along that it is a problem. I have also expressed my concerns for the dip. But per the graph that you posted, do not discount that the two systems are equal to each other below 5K rpm, and the AR system is clearly the better performer from 7K till redline. Keep in mind it still has one baffle installed. So based on this single case, the Termi full is the better performer for a 2k rpm spread, while the AR exhaust is the better performer for the latter 4k rpm.

The other 1199 equipped with Termi Full system and new Upmap posted by WAf on page 1 was clearly the better performer. There is no question.

Remember, the reason why WAf went to Bunbury dyno. His figures were in the 170 whp range on the previous dyno. He went to this new facility on a quest to validate AR's 190hp claim. He has achieved that. The data is in front of you, and littered throughout both threads. If these results do not appear to match in your eyes (AR's exhaust whp figures and WAf's whp figures), then I guess we agree to disagree.
 
The hole

So when I go back and look at the AR dyno graphs, non of them have this hole at 6-7k.

This is the area where I'd like some feedback from AR (I will ask Rich direct) because if we could get rid of the hole then I'd be very happy and clearly it wasn't something affecting their machines unless I've missed it.
 

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