Austin Racing Inconel Install - Part II
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After reading (wading) through both of these threads, this is what I've taken from them.
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Disregarding the back and forth between the few of you, and the flame fanning happening in both threads, the results have been clear as day.
The AR exhaust "tuned" performs as Rich has said it would. Following his setup parameters, WAf was able to reproduce his results.
Can't really argue that it does not perform as advertised untuned, because it wasn't tested untuned on Bunbury's Dyno.
Does it produce more power than the Termi equivalent? That's a great question. It appears the answer is no. But keep in mind that it was claimed max performance is achieved with 0 baffles installed. To claim the system out performs anything else though is beyond a stretch...
Does he Rich offer a great product? I would say yes. The AR exhaust is an excellent option to the Termi Full and probably the Akrapovic unobtanium system.
Rapid Bikes modules (preloaded with maps) do not seem to work for anyone outside the UK. Rich has some work to do on that item and I would guess Rapid Bikes modules will not sell well outside the UK. So one should likely spend their earnings on another tuning method. If one has to dyno tune the RB module outside the UK, may as well look into Tuneboy, PC, or Rexxer.
Do you need a p#&&y guard I mean heat shield?I would say no, if you use the 1199 for its intended purpose while wearing leathers. On the street, though, you'd be crazy to not have one. As we all know, the option will soon be available. It really should be included for free though.
This whole talk of banning is tomfoolery. I'm sure no one here gets along with everyone. Buttons were pushed and mud was slung. WAf got his results. The AR exhaust is a nice piece. Pick the exhaust you want and be happy. We all ride Ducs and tomorrow's a new day.
Did AR email you what to say? This whole statement is wrong in sooooo many ways and soooo unnecessary - no need for you to attempt rehashing in AR's favor, Waf's numbers speak for themselves.
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Yes, you are correct. His numbers speak for themselves. Can't argue that, they are on page 1...
PS. Don't think anyone here has my email address..
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How can you say the AR system does as claimed??? Rich consistently claimed it out performed the Termi Full system..+5HP if memory serves... Even you admit that isnt true... I'm not going to waste time dragging all this up again...If you want to see the AR system as you do then so be it...
I am done with this charade... No matter what evidence is produced.. no matter what details of previous dubious claims and falsehoods are shown it appears that you continue to look kindly at AR... Frankly I am dumbfounded.... But its your opinion and your have every right to it...
I am not looking kindly at anyone but am looking kindly everyone. Personally I think all the bickering is f#$%ing stupid. So I choose to ignore it and hold everyone in the same light, as an enthusiast, a member, a brother, a sister, etc...
So I have no choice but to look at the DATA and only the DATA!!! Get passed what can not be proven, like I did, and pay attention to what can be proven. WAfs AR results back up Rich's AR results. Does it not?
The Termi full with latest Upmap produces identical performance and also appears to exceed the AR in some areas. Does it not?
Stw
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The AR exhaust "tuned" performs as Rich has said it would. Following his setup parameters, WAf was able to reproduce his results.
The Termi full with latest Upmap produces identical performance and also appears to exceed the AR in some areas. Does it not?
How do you reconcile these 2 statements you have made?? I'm confused...
The Termi full with latest Upmap produces identical performance and also appears to exceed the AR in some areas. Does it not?
How do you reconcile these 2 statements you have made?? I'm confused...
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Compare the AR exhaust data below to WAfs AR exhaust latest results, you will see that they match. Guidelines were followed, results were similar, no?
And now compare the Termi results on page 1 to WAf's results. The Termi with new Upmap performed similarly but was superior in some areas, no?
If anything I say is incorrect or I am misinterpreting the data, by all means point it out.
PS. Graph above from post #47 of part1 of this saga.
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I see the dip, and have acknowledged all along that it is a problem. I have also expressed my concerns for the dip. But per the graph that you posted, do not discount that the two systems are equal to each other below 5K rpm, and the AR system is clearly the better performer from 7K till redline. Keep in mind it still has one baffle installed. So based on this single case, the Termi full is the better performer for a 2k rpm spread, while the AR exhaust is the better performer for the latter 4k rpm.
The other 1199 equipped with Termi Full system and new Upmap posted by WAf on page 1 was clearly the better performer. There is no question.
Remember, the reason why WAf went to Bunbury dyno. His figures were in the 170 whp range on the previous dyno. He went to this new facility on a quest to validate AR's 190hp claim. He has achieved that. The data is in front of you, and littered throughout both threads. If these results do not appear to match in your eyes (AR's exhaust whp figures and WAf's whp figures), then I guess we agree to disagree.
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The hole
So when I go back and look at the AR dyno graphs, non of them have this hole at 6-7k.
This is the area where I'd like some feedback from AR (I will ask Rich direct) because if we could get rid of the hole then I'd be very happy and clearly it wasn't something affecting their machines unless I've missed it.
So when I go back and look at the AR dyno graphs, non of them have this hole at 6-7k.
This is the area where I'd like some feedback from AR (I will ask Rich direct) because if we could get rid of the hole then I'd be very happy and clearly it wasn't something affecting their machines unless I've missed it.
Attachments
Because it's all a grey area STW and 6 of 1 half a dozen of the other, and IMO there really has been too much bickering. This forum probably deserves better
I believe you and others have well and truely made your respective points ad nauseum.
I think perhaps that Rich has been mauled enough whether he deserved it or not.
It seems as though the performance claims made by AR have largely been replicated to the point where most people would say it's neither here nor there. IMO the AR system still needs more work and not good enough for me to spend my money on. Yet.
We all need to digest this business in our own time for ourselves, and come to our own conclusions regarding what our choices will be in exhaust systems.
In the mean time, i already have the Termi slips which for me yielded an immediate improvement over the stock mufflers, and they are lighter and sound better than the stockers.
Then it was followed up with the updated fuel maps released in November which was another good improvement.
So i'm in a good place and still moving forward.
I wait patiently for more info to come in, and am in the process of tracking down more info for myself on the newly revised Termi manifolds (part number 96480151A) as they look promising.
It seems as though the colaboration between DUCATI and Termi is alive and well. In the grand scheme of things we are dealing with 2 large highly experienced companies with lots of resourses/expertise that have been working on the solution for probably the last 2 or 3 years (maybe longer?) and in this case have everything to loose, and they know they need to get it sorted with the full system. They might have done it
Cheers
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Only if you agree to join. I like to party...
WAf, good luck with that. The dip in hp was not present before. My guess is it'll chalked up to tuning.
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Only if you agree to join. I like to party...
WAf, good luck with that. The dip in hp was not present before. My guess is it'll chalked up to tuning.
AR are looking at it, had an initial response from Rich, and I've also asked Wayne at TB to cast an eye over it as well.
What's interesting is that you only get this at full throttle, if you are more progressive you don't notice it at all.
Anyway, not a biggie I'm pleased with the scenario overall and I still have the Termi slips if the new manifold turns out to make things better.
Is anyone buying the new termi full system manifold? Im picking mine up in the uk in 2 months....so if anyone 'exempting WAF' could undertake a dyno run with their termi slip only with stock header, record results, then repeat with the new manifold fitted to check the gains.... I'd owe them a beer...
I'm thinking about it, but i don't know where to confidently get it dynoed.
Preferably on the same day as the manifold change.
I've also toyed with the idea of going with the Tuneboy, and riding it to Sydney to have it all done down there. Dyno run with slips and the latest map then get Tuneboy installed/tuned, after that get the latest manifold swap and re-tuned to suit. All done with the cyclonic fans blowing air in @150 Mph and running BP Ultimate(as that's what i, and the bike prefer to burn) and a freshly lubed chain, new plugs with fresh oil and new oil filter and air filter.
Have i missed anything out people?
Maybe even a Rear sprocket swap to 41 T afterward.
Sort of what WAF has done so far only on the East coast
Maybe i'll get an ice-cream, and a newspaper? Oh i forgot about a sock
Can anybody recommend somewhere in Brisbane to dyno?
The other alternative will be to wait until there's more expertise regarding dynoing the 1199. Maybe after the warranty period is up and it is fully run in?? (June 2014)
There's lots of time to think about how i will go about it, if at all.
Looking into prices for the manifolds now.
Any feedback would be welcome people.
Cheers
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I'm thinking about it, but i don't know where to confidently get it dynoed.
Preferably on the same day as the manifold change.
I've also toyed with the idea of going with the Tuneboy, and riding it to Sydney to have it all done down there. Dyno run with slips and the latest map then get Tuneboy installed/tuned, after that get the latest manifold swap and re-tuned to suit. All done with the cyclonic fans blowing air in @150 Mph and running BP Ultimate(as that's what i, and the bike prefer to burn) and a freshly lubed chain, new plugs with fresh oil and new oil filter and air filter.
Have i missed anything out people?
Maybe even a Rear sprocket swap to 41 T afterward.
Sort of what WAF has done so far only on the East coast
Maybe i'll get an ice-cream, and a newspaper? Oh i forgot about a sock
Can anybody recommend somewhere in Brisbane to dyno?
The other alternative will be to wait until there's more expertise regarding dynoing the 1199. Maybe after the warranty period is up and it is fully run in?? (June 2014)
There's lots of time to think about how i will go about it, if at all.
Looking into prices for the manifolds now.
Any feedback would be welcome people.
Cheers
Sorry mate I'm on the West coast. Maybe Wayne can recommend a shop in Brisbane, or Wallaroo - pretty sure he's from Qld?
Thanks mate
I wonder who Wayne works with in Sydney?
I'll get it together somehow.
Don't you sleep?
What time is it over there?
Brad
I already took a flight to Perth, BrisVegas is far closer for me.
Perhaps you can talk to Speedys about the dyno tuning and I could jump on a flight up.
If we could get two or three bikes in Brisbane that want a tune it would be worth the trip.
I would like to get a few more Pani's on the dyno in Sydney so we can get some more dyno results with different pipes.
I think I saw a question about rev limits among the gun stuff.
Yes the rev limit can be changed.
This would require a different tune file.
I already took a flight to Perth, BrisVegas is far closer for me.
Perhaps you can talk to Speedys about the dyno tuning and I could jump on a flight up.
If we could get two or three bikes in Brisbane that want a tune it would be worth the trip.
I would like to get a few more Pani's on the dyno in Sydney so we can get some more dyno results with different pipes.
I think I saw a question about rev limits among the gun stuff.
Yes the rev limit can be changed.
This would require a different tune file.
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wow all this crap is still going on. How many threads on this are there?
Just get the exhaust you like the look of the best for God's sake. Not like many of you can wring out the +/- 5 or 3 or 9 or whatever horsepower any of these systems make. I doubt most of the people on here bickering about numbers can even push the stock exhaust to it's limits.
geez.....
regardless of numbers....the AR exhausts are really nice quality.
Just get the exhaust you like the look of the best for God's sake. Not like many of you can wring out the +/- 5 or 3 or 9 or whatever horsepower any of these systems make. I doubt most of the people on here bickering about numbers can even push the stock exhaust to it's limits.
geez.....
regardless of numbers....the AR exhausts are really nice quality.
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