Austin Racing Inconel Install - Part II

Stw said:

The AR exhaust "tuned" performs as Rich has said it would. Following his setup parameters, WAf was able to reproduce his results.

The Termi full with latest Upmap produces identical performance and also appears to exceed the AR in some areas. Does it not?

How do you reconcile these 2 statements you have made?? I'm confused...

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Because it's all a grey area STW and 6 of 1 half a dozen of the other, and IMO there really has been too much bickering. This forum probably deserves better
I believe you and others have well and truely made your respective points ad nauseum.
I think perhaps that Rich has been mauled enough whether he deserved it or not.
It seems as though the performance claims made by AR have largely been replicated to the point where most people would say it's neither here nor there. IMO the AR system still needs more work and not good enough for me to spend my money on. Yet.
We all need to digest this business in our own time for ourselves, and come to our own conclusions regarding what our choices will be in exhaust systems.

In the mean time, i already have the Termi slips which for me yielded an immediate improvement over the stock mufflers, and they are lighter and sound better than the stockers.
Then it was followed up with the updated fuel maps released in November which was another good improvement.
So i'm in a good place and still moving forward.
I wait patiently for more info to come in, and am in the process of tracking down more info for myself on the newly revised Termi manifolds (part number 96480151A) as they look promising.
It seems as though the colaboration between DUCATI and Termi is alive and well. In the grand scheme of things we are dealing with 2 large highly experienced companies with lots of resourses/expertise that have been working on the solution for probably the last 2 or 3 years (maybe longer?) and in this case have everything to loose, and they know they need to get it sorted with the full system. They might have done it


Cheers

Trauma said:

You guys need to get a room, er ah a thread.....

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Only if you agree to join. I like to party...

WAf, good luck with that. The dip in hp was not present before. My guess is it'll chalked up to tuning.

Notec said:

Only if you agree to join. I like to party...

WAf, good luck with that. The dip in hp was not present before. My guess is it'll chalked up to tuning.

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AR are looking at it, had an initial response from Rich, and I've also asked Wayne at TB to cast an eye over it as well.

What's interesting is that you only get this at full throttle, if you are more progressive you don't notice it at all.

Anyway, not a biggie I'm pleased with the scenario overall and I still have the Termi slips if the new manifold turns out to make things better.

Is anyone buying the new termi full system manifold? Im picking mine up in the uk in 2 months....so if anyone 'exempting WAF' could undertake a dyno run with their termi slip only with stock header, record results, then repeat with the new manifold fitted to check the gains.... I'd owe them a beer...

iceman said:

Is anyone buying the new termi full system manifold? Im picking mine up in the uk in 2 months....so if anyone 'exempting WAF' could undertake a dyno run with their termi slip only with stock header, record results, then repeat with the new manifold fitted to check the gains.... I'd owe them a beer...

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I'm thinking about it, but i don't know where to confidently get it dynoed.
Preferably on the same day as the manifold change.
I've also toyed with the idea of going with the Tuneboy, and riding it to Sydney to have it all done down there. Dyno run with slips and the latest map then get Tuneboy installed/tuned, after that get the latest manifold swap and re-tuned to suit. All done with the cyclonic fans blowing air in @150 Mph and running BP Ultimate(as that's what i, and the bike prefer to burn) and a freshly lubed chain, new plugs with fresh oil and new oil filter and air filter.
Have i missed anything out people?
Maybe even a Rear sprocket swap to 41 T afterward.
Sort of what WAF has done so far only on the East coast

Maybe i'll get an ice-cream, and a newspaper? Oh i forgot about a sock

Can anybody recommend somewhere in Brisbane to dyno?

The other alternative will be to wait until there's more expertise regarding dynoing the 1199. Maybe after the warranty period is up and it is fully run in?? (June 2014)

There's lots of time to think about how i will go about it, if at all.
Looking into prices for the manifolds now.

Any feedback would be welcome people.

Cheers

Brad said:

I'm thinking about it, but i don't know where to confidently get it dynoed.
Preferably on the same day as the manifold change.
I've also toyed with the idea of going with the Tuneboy, and riding it to Sydney to have it all done down there. Dyno run with slips and the latest map then get Tuneboy installed/tuned, after that get the latest manifold swap and re-tuned to suit. All done with the cyclonic fans blowing air in @150 Mph and running BP Ultimate(as that's what i, and the bike prefer to burn) and a freshly lubed chain, new plugs with fresh oil and new oil filter and air filter.
Have i missed anything out people?
Maybe even a Rear sprocket swap to 41 T afterward.
Sort of what WAF has done so far only on the East coast

Maybe i'll get an ice-cream, and a newspaper? Oh i forgot about a sock

Can anybody recommend somewhere in Brisbane to dyno?

The other alternative will be to wait until there's more expertise regarding dynoing the 1199. Maybe after the warranty period is up and it is fully run in?? (June 2014)

There's lots of time to think about how i will go about it, if at all.
Looking into prices for the manifolds now.

Any feedback would be welcome people.

Cheers

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Sorry mate I'm on the West coast. Maybe Wayne can recommend a shop in Brisbane, or Wallaroo - pretty sure he's from Qld?

WAfatboy said:

Sorry mate I'm on the West coast. Maybe Wayne can recommend a shop in Brisbane, or Wallaroo - pretty sure he's from Qld?

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Thanks mate
I wonder who Wayne works with in Sydney?
I'll get it together somehow.

Don't you sleep?
What time is it over there?

Brad

I already took a flight to Perth, BrisVegas is far closer for me.
Perhaps you can talk to Speedys about the dyno tuning and I could jump on a flight up.
If we could get two or three bikes in Brisbane that want a tune it would be worth the trip.

I would like to get a few more Pani's on the dyno in Sydney so we can get some more dyno results with different pipes.

I think I saw a question about rev limits among the gun stuff.
Yes the rev limit can be changed.
This would require a different tune file.

wow all this crap is still going on. How many threads on this are there?

Just get the exhaust you like the look of the best for God's sake. Not like many of you can wring out the +/- 5 or 3 or 9 or whatever horsepower any of these systems make. I doubt most of the people on here bickering about numbers can even push the stock exhaust to it's limits.

geez.....

regardless of numbers....the AR exhausts are really nice quality.

i am still hoping we reach the "1000 Thanks" in the initial thread.

gnance said:

wow all this crap is still going on. How many threads on this are there?

Just get the exhaust you like the look of the best for God's sake. Not like many of you can wring out the +/- 5 or 3 or 9 or whatever horsepower any of these systems make. I doubt most of the people on here bickering about numbers can even push the stock exhaust to it's limits.

geez.....

regardless of numbers....the AR exhausts are really nice quality.

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Subject getting beat to death on a internet forum??
YOU'RE KIDDING!!!!

Disclaimer: I am actually eagerly awaiting Rich's ver2 exhaust. I still think AR is an excellent choice, if you know what you're getting into and willing to perform Dyno exorcisms.

iamlance said:

Subject getting beat to death on a internet forum??
YOU'RE KIDDING!!!!

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Waf... One question.... did you have any baffles in the Termi slips???

Stw said:

Waf... One question.... did you have any baffles in the Termi slips???

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If you mean the DB killers, no.

Interesting you mention baffles though, we are going to try swapping the baffle to the right side in the AR in an attempt to remove the hole at 6-7.

i read through the numerous pages of this thread with some interest and i have to say if i was a manufacturer and was reading these pages it would scare from ever getting a forum such as this involved in the development of a product as in my opinion people have gone out of there way to discredit Rich and AR with some individuals reaching in excess of 100 posts on the topic even though they don't own the system or ever had any intention of buying it.

I think AR has a good product that is well made and was conceived with great intentions and did eventually hit the claimed numbers after some tuning but i think looking back Rich and his team would probably underestimate their peak HP numbers and perhaps not share as much data as they did.

At the end of this debacle i am not really sure what was achieved only
* AR hitting their claimed numbers
* Certain members of the forum felling very smug about themselves
* Scaring any future collaborators from ever getting the forum involved in any future development

i used to look at this forum to share information on bikes but lately it seems to be turning into a boys club with lots of back slapping but as has been mentioned if you don't like it then don't read it so i guess i will be tuning out for a while.


later folks

reganc said:

i read through the numerous pages of this thread with some interest and i have to say if i was a manufacturer and was reading these pages it would scare from ever getting a forum such as this involved in the development of a product as in my opinion people have gone out of there way to discredit Rich and AR with some individuals reaching in excess of 100 posts on the topic even though they don't own the system or ever had any intention of buying it.

I think AR has a good product that is well made and was conceived with great intentions and did eventually hit the claimed numbers after some tuning but i think looking back Rich and his team would probably underestimate their peak HP numbers and perhaps not share as much data as they did.

At the end of this debacle i am not really sure what was achieved only
* AR hitting their claimed numbers
* Certain members of the forum felling very smug about themselves
* Scaring any future collaborators from ever getting the forum involved in any future development

i used to look at this forum to share information on bikes but lately it seems to be turning into a boys club with lots of back slapping but as has been mentioned if you don't like it then don't read it so i guess i will be tuning out for a while.


later folks

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There is a lot of back slapping and banter but there are still people who are looking for information.

I think its a bit unfair to write off this thread because of the chatter. Whilst I have no doubt that AR was conceived with the best intentions but they also made some pretty big claims which didn't pan out despite the peak HP figure.

When spending a significant sum on a product (this is not a $200 air filter) I think we're entitled to test those claims, which I've tried to do in an objective way, replicating testing scenarios that would give the AR product the best chance to perform. (at my cost and using experienced tuners)

We now have data to allow members to make an informed choice and there were a number of members deciding between Termi slips/full and the AR. They now know that if they buy the product they:

1. Won't get big gains across the range over full Termis by just bolting on
2. That the exhaust has to be tuned to achieve the numbers
3. That they don't need to purchase the RB module to tune, e.g Tuneboy
4. There is very little difference in peak HP between AR & Termi
5. The heat issue is still a subjective one but on balance current owners would prefer a heat shield, which AR is providing at a subsidised cost for owners
6. The exhaust looks great on a normal bike, very streamlined
7. The exhaust sounds terrific, if a tiny bit loud, really emotive

So if you have $4,000 burning a hole in your pocket and you are choosing an alternative to the stock exhaust you have a really good balanced review to include in your decision..

Finally, If you've read ALL the threads (and i mean going back to last year as well as the most recent) you will have seen some very aggressive behaviour from AR, which as a customer was really disconcerting, and certainly didn't help. As a comparison the guys from Tuneboy have been a model contributor, despite being attacked pretty hard initially, and have won respect and customers by the balanced way they have contributed. Manufacturers and retailers need to take the high ground regardless of the comments here, which essentially represent our 'private' conversations with each other.

I am continuing to pursue the tuning process and making some changes to the baffles setup and also their packing, to work on the hole in power and also to take the edge of the sound a little. So I hope that will also be valuable to members and ultimately to AR because I really like the exhaust and if I can iron out those issues I will be delighted with it.

If people are upset about exhuast not making claimed hp. Ducati claimed 1199 makes 195 crank hp. BMW claims 193. Has anyone see or heard of 1199 making more hp than BMW on dyno?

yeah well Ducati people aren't foolish and crazy enough to post up in here in the manner Rich did.

who's in for a group buy of a true* "195" hp Pani R?

Glogan said:

If people are upset about exhuast not making claimed hp. Ducati claimed 1199 makes 195 crank hp. BMW claims 193. Has anyone see or heard of 1199 making more hp than BMW on dyno?

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Glogan said:

If people are upset about exhuast not making claimed hp. Ducati claimed 1199 makes 195 crank hp. BMW claims 193. Has anyone see or heard of 1199 making more hp than BMW on dyno?

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Yep that has been mentioned several times in the interest of fair and balanced coverage. In this instance ultimately it did make the Peak HP number

VAST said:

yeah well Ducati people aren't foolish and crazy enough to post up in here in the manner Rich did.

who's in for a group buy of a true* "195" hp Pani R?

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...and lets be clear its not 'crazy' or 'foolish' to post here as a manufacture or retailer but it is worth tempering your claims.

Lets just leave the mud slinging now, because the facts get lost every time we go down this road.