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rac1ngsnak3 · Sep 6, 2021

RickD996 said:
If your bike is perfect everywhere, other than at maximum braking into slower corners, thus bottoming out, I'd reduce the air gap by 10mm.

Not a bad idea

Taz · Sep 7, 2021

rac1ngsnak3 said:
Not a bad idea

This was also suggested to me by my Öhlins guy, after going to stiffer springs and still bottoming out in some heavy braking zones.

RickD996 · Sep 7, 2021

Alternatively, you could man up and get off the brakes and carry more corner entry speed. Your choice

RickD996 · Sep 7, 2021

bp_SFV4 said:
Thereby adding more oil?

At first glance I feel like this is way more complicated than suggested.

Syringe with 10ml of the same weight fork oil. Loosen one fork cap, empty syringe in. Repeat for the other fork.

If this process is too complicated....

Steven31371 · Sep 7, 2021

RickD996 said:
Alternatively, you could man up and get off the brakes and carry more corner entry speed. Your choice

hahaha true, but that won’t save me from locking up abs bottoming out when that deer runs out in front of me or a car or something haha

Steven31371 · Sep 7, 2021

RickD996 said:
Syringe with 10ml of the same weight fork oil. Loosen one fork cap, empty syringe in. Repeat for the other fork.

If this process is too complicated....

I talked with Moss and Ohlins, and both said pretty much the same thing, which is that no matter how much lipstick you put on the pig you’re still gunna have to change the spring rate at my weight. So I’d rather just get it all done at once while they have the rest of the bike apart.

tightening the front preload didn’t help at all, and heavier oil with less air might have but then when I start running it harder and harder that will just heat the oil faster I would think?

brad8266 · Sep 7, 2021

Steven31371 said:
I talked with Moss and Ohlins, and both said pretty much the same thing, which is that no matter how much lipstick you put on the pig you’re still gunna have to change the spring rate at my weight.

Yes you need to get the spring rate correct first. From there you make adjustments with preload, compression, fluid level, valving.

Part of not burying your forks constantly is controlled braking ie.. not grabbing a fistful of brakes all at once but instead get into them gradually. Good to practice emergency braking to get a feel for it. Preload the lever first to load the tire, then get harder in the brakes.

RickD996 · Sep 7, 2021

Steven31371 said:
I talked with Moss and Ohlins, and both said pretty much the same thing, which is that no matter how much lipstick you put on the pig you’re still gunna have to change the spring rate at my weight. So I’d rather just get it all done at once while they have the rest of the bike apart.

tightening the front preload didn’t help at all, and heavier oil with less air might have but then when I start running it harder and harder that will just heat the oil faster I would think?

Do not put heavier oil in your forks. Ohlins has a specific weight oil that the dampers are designed to work with. Only use Ohlins fork oil.

Preload does not change your spring rate, it will not effect the fork travel if you are bottoming out. It also does not change your air gap.

The only two things that will effect your issue are springs or air gap.

rac1ngsnak3 · Sep 7, 2021

RickD996 said:
Do not put heavier oil in your forks. Ohlins has a specific weight oil that the dampers are designed to work with. Only use Ohlins fork oil.

Preload does not change your spring rate, it will not effect the fork travel if you are bottoming out. It also does not change your air gap.

The only two things that will effect your issue are springs or air gap.

Can you explain how preload doesn’t affect fork travel? I though that it sets ride height, which then translates to fork travel. But preload is a hard concept for me to wrap my head around.

Also don’t use Ohlins fork oil in your Ohlins electronic forks. According to the manual it’s Shell Donax TA. [headscratch]

Superquadro 1299 · Sep 8, 2021

rac1ngsnak3 said:
Can you explain how preload doesn’t affect fork travel? I though that it sets ride height, which then translates to fork travel. But preload is a hard concept for me to wrap my head around.

Also don’t use Ohlins fork oil in your Ohlins electronic forks. According to the manual it’s Shell Donax TA. [headscratch]

Hey mate, I'll try to explain the preload concept if you will allow me.

Increasing preload will adjust the ride height when stationary. Though increasing preload will not make the spring stiffer. If you can not set static sag and rider sag then that will be the first indication that the rate of the spring is incorrect.

Now when the motorcycle is in motion things change again. Any mass supported by the spring will increase with velocity. So the faster you travel the heavier you and your motorcycle become and the more force that will be exerted onto the spring.

Now lets say that you manage to set the required rider sag. And you at your favorite track and you find that your suspension is bottoming out. This is where increasing preload will not help you, but rather changing out the springs in the suspension with a higher rate would assist with suspension travel.

RickD996 · Sep 8, 2021

rac1ngsnak3 said:
Can you explain how preload doesn’t affect fork travel? I though that it sets ride height, which then translates to fork travel. But preload is a hard concept for me to wrap my head around.

Also don’t use Ohlins fork oil in your Ohlins electronic forks. According to the manual it’s Shell Donax TA. [headscratch]

Let's say you have no preload. And under braking from 50mph, you use all the travel of the fork, except for the last 10mm.
Now, you add all the preload you can. And under the same braking force from 50mph, you will use the exact same amount of fork travel (all the travel except for the last 10mm).
So, preload will not effect fork travel.
It does effect ride height (this is what you're adjusting to get your sag settings). Wind all your preload on, and the bike will be taller from the ground. This effects CoG, which effects agility and stability under acceleration (positive and negative).
It also effects initial force. If you have a spring, and place a 10kg weight on top of it, it will compress by 10mm (for this example). If you then compress the same spring 10mm, and place the 10kg weight on it, it will not compress any further. But 11kg will compress it a further 1mm. This is useful if you don't want the bike to compress the suspension, for example, on initial acceleration. But, you still want it to compress for bumps.

dieonthishill · Sep 8, 2021

Excited to see your thoughts on the carbon subframe. I have one on order as well. And a few other fullsix carbon bits

Steven31371 · Sep 8, 2021

dieonthishill said:
Excited to see your thoughts on the carbon subframe. I have one on order as well. And a few other fullsix carbon bits

RickD996 said:
Do not put heavier oil in your forks. Ohlins has a specific weight oil that the dampers are designed to work with. Only use Ohlins fork oil.

Preload does not change your spring rate, it will not effect the fork travel if you are bottoming out. It also does not change your air gap.

The only two things that will effect your issue are springs or air gap.

thanks brother, that’s useful…they putting a 115 spring on the back and 11.0 up front, which may still be a little too light for me, but that’s what Ohlins recommended for 80% street use and 20% track use at my ride weight…a bit more oil may cover any gaps from there

Taz · Sep 8, 2021

Steven31371 said:
thanks brother, that’s useful…they putting a 115 spring on the back and 11.0 up front, which may still be a little too light for me, but that’s what Ohlins recommended for 80% street use and 20% track use at my ride weight…a bit more oil may cover any gaps from there

Probably too light in the forks when you go to the track. We put 12.0 in mine and I'm still bottoming out in some areas. And I'm lighter than you.

RickD996 · Sep 8, 2021

Taz said:
Probably too light in the forks when you go to the track. We put 12.0 in mine and I'm still bottoming out in some areas. And I'm lighter than you.

How much air gap do you have?

Bear in mind, every time you swap out springs, some oil comes with them. This increases the air gap, and makes bottoming out more likely.

Taz · Sep 9, 2021

We decided to keep the oil level same as stock. The swap was done by an Öhlins certified mechanic, so I would presume he would know to check the oil level.

RickD996 · Sep 9, 2021

The stock air gap is for a road fork. If you're hitting the track, try less air gap in 10mm increments. Is stock 200mm? I probably wouldn't go less than 160mm, but would be interested to hear what Ohlins recommends as a minimum.

Ohlins certified mechanic basically means he can change springs and paid Ohlins to check he can, so he can have an Ohlins certificate. A mechanic with race experience and experience of the effects of changes made to suspension would be more useful (and sometimes they get the Ohlins certs too!).

BP PanigaleV4S · Sep 9, 2021

200mm seems like a lot. The service manual doesn't list it. It just say "fill to the proper level."

RickD996 · Sep 9, 2021

bp_SFV4 said:
200mm seems like a lot. The service manual doesn't list it. It just say "fill to the proper level."

Fair enough, I don't know what air gap Ohlins would need. In my Mupo forks, it's 200mm, and my Bitubo forks are 180mm recommended, but I run 160mm.

BP PanigaleV4S · Sep 9, 2021

The ohlins manual replacement cartridges for the S forks are 160mm. I just can't find what Ducati's spec is.

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