Back to back set up standard ABS and S

So, first proper track time today, rode both bikes at Eastern Creek, 27 deg dry and clean track...

First rode the standard with the full system, using the stock fork internals and "soft" rear shock, it took a short while to dial in the forks but by the time I'd settled in... The forks are better from the factory for road work than the S.

I'd go as far as saying the forks would be my preferred pick for a wet race, lots of feel, needed some extra oil to reduce the tendency to bottom out... But plush in comparison to the ohlins kit.... I have decided to just re valve and not bother with a cartridge kit...

The S was stiff in comparison, the forks need some work to find the ideal feeling, rewarded by riding and pushing the front harder, the rear is ok for a high volume factory fitted TTX, could be better but think the shim stack needs work... Given my weight I'd suggest its too hard for riders less than 85kg, I weigh 98 with my kit on and it took a while to balance the front and rear... Needs a softer spring from stock...

I will take time after tomorrow's track tests to write a better comparo with some better photos...

I did ride both of my pani's over the mountain last week before prepping them for the track. 85kms of queenslands best asphalt, bumpy, lots of camber changes, bit like northwest 200, given the time of day the pace was not slow either, I'd chose the standard forks for road work over the ohlins, I know that will piss a lot of people off, but I did this back to back with no expectation or preference...

Before u guys moan about opinions, this info is based on my own experience, 1 Manx GP, one IOM TT, 2000 Bathurst, AUstralian super bike and the northwest 200....

Both of my bikes felt great today, handled better than my R1's with TTX and Fork kits, I am mighty happy with both, love the power, turn is is exquisite and brakes are awesome...

More info tomorrow

Interesting results and I look forward to the next instalment.

Having just sent my Panigale (base model) for suspension work, and being told the rear shim stack needed work, softer springs etc, your experience (and weight) seems to be quite similar to what I felt after the first 'gentle' 1000kms. No doubt the oil level will be correct after this 'service'.

Still makes me shake my head when I spend big bucks on a bike and then spent another $1000 getting the suspension set for my weight. When I picked up the bike from new, the ride sag was 8mm front and 10mm rear. WTF? How heavy is the rider for the default set-up?

It's just as well the bike is soooooo sexy and sound sooooo sweet!

Agree that the S is too stiff out of the box especially for bumpy UK roads.

I've had a fair bit work done on my suspension to make it more fast road than track which includes a softer rear spring and changing the fork internals as well as other changes. I weigh 75kg so needed to soften it off.

The reason I bought the S was the ability to change setup easily. I have my sport mode set up for road and race mode for track. It's nice bing able to fine tune the suspension without getting my scanners out.

Kam said:

Agree that the S is too stiff out of the box especially for bumpy UK roads.

I've had a fair bit work done on my suspension to make it more fast road than track which includes a softer rear spring and changing the fork internals as well as other changes. I weigh 75kg so needed to soften it off.

The reason I bought the S was the ability to change setup easily. I have my sport mode set up for road and race mode for track. It's nice bing able to fine tune the suspension without getting my scanners out.

Click to expand...

I am about 75 as well, and around town the rear is pretty harsh on expansion joints in the road, no matter the setting. You swopped the rear spring? For what?

First sessions this morning were good, tyre pressures hot on the OEM tyres were 27 rear and 33 front, track temp 30deg, front 5 and a half turns of pre load, 12 clicks of rebound and 18 compression, front feeling is good...

Added 1 full turn of pre load and am at 24 of 26 compression on the rear shock, was pushing slightly wide, wound off the front 1 turn left the rear alone, rear is spinning up a little, changed from 195 hi to 195 low to reduce the snatch on the throttle and soften the delivery... Running about 5 seconds off full race pace, factory BMW are testing, we are 5 seconds off their pace at the moment... Good effort given the slack in the stock shock, not helping with tyre life...

Running out of options with rear, poor show Ducati, would like to have had more adjustment from this shock given the quality of the front...


Next session in 30 mins

Ducati OEM shocks always suck, was the same with the xx98 bikes too. I agree the forks on the base model are better than I expected, but I had no expectations of the shock. I think its a Sachs unit. I asked my suspension guy if it was worth it to revalve or at least respring the shock to make it better, he said dont even bother, even a used Ohlins would perform better than the OEM shock.. as it is now even at the relatively moderate pace I ride at I cant get the shock to feel right

Yep, I've hit the "wall" in regards to set up, feeling very sloppy now, after 5 quickish laps the shock fades and becomes too soft in both compression and rebound, the track I'm testing at has a very tight section with a 7 changes of direction in less than 800 metres, loads the rear shock, with traction control in 2 still has too much intervention, no point in having the unit re valved and sprung, file it in the bin and get a good shock, needs hi and low speed damping adjustment...

Next session in 30 mins

Will take photos of the rear tyres after today, interesting to see the ware on the same brand of tyre but S vs standard, same pressures, same track...

Front tyre is great but u need to get plenty of heat in to it to make it work well... Wonder how it would respond to hard road riding, still think the Michelin tyres are a better bet for the road... SC 2 seems a bit vague until its "hot" however this might be the forks because the standard feels better quicker, don't ya just love suspension...

Over cast but dry, cool and good weather for a test..

Bowdy69 said:

Yep, I've hit the "wall" in regards to set up, feeling very sloppy now, after 5 quickish laps the shock fades and becomes too soft in both compression and rebound, the track I'm testing at has a very tight section with a 7 changes of direction in less than 800 metres, loads the rear shock, with traction control in 2 still has too much intervention, no point in having the unit re valved and sprung, file it in the bin and get a good shock, needs hi and low speed damping adjustment...

Click to expand...

Was this the standard bike or the S?

Also have you adjusted the geometry on either bike yet? I went with the Ohlins recomendations as a starting point for my last track day and it was a vast improvement. The bike was just too high in the rear from the factory for me.

Not yet, to be honest the need to get base settings and general ride height and sags was the aim of yesterday and today, I'm running the S tomorrow and will look at fork placement and shock length...

My main aim was to provide feed back on standard vs S in regards to fork and shock performance, the final aspect of which is the standard rear is not up to the performance of the rest of the bike.

We are currently 5 - 8 seconds off the pace depending on the number of laps, I'm looking forward to re valving the forks on the standard and fitting a new rear shock using a 9kg spring and C 4 valving as our starting point...

In factory trim the ohlins kit is ok, too harshly sprung, I will run a softer spring tomorrow to see if the valving is still in the ball park.

Will post a photo of tyres shortly

I'll be interested in what you find on the S. I'm dropping down 1 rate on the rear spring on mine and staying with the same valving. I'm running the rear shock at 306mm.

I also added 10cc of fork oil to see if it helped the diving I was getting on the forks. It did seem to help me on hard braking.

Tyre ware

This is after 2 days of back to back testing and set up, tyre from the standard 1199, started to see more ware from wheel spin, shock unloading or what some people refer to as pumping...

Rear from 1199 s

This is the rear from the S, approximately the same amount of work/track time, and about 1.5 seconds a lap faster... What is interesting is the front on both bikes felt great, the ohlins feels firm and I agree with your findings, put 15 mm of oil in each leg, 205mm air gap...

Thank you for showing interest in my thread, worth it in my mind given how many people are looking at the investment and trying to decide on spec for them... I'd by a standard, fit a shock from one of the many aftermarket providers and spend the rest on goodies...

However given I am racing these I am happy to have the 1199s as my No1 bike...

BTW, both bikes ran at approximately 90 - 95 deg water temp, will have the rad before the next testing session in January, looking for 80-85 deg under race conditions...

Will keep those of you who are interested up to date

Cheers

Bowdy #69

Sorry, I'd buy a standard, not by a standard... Long couple of days... ;-)

I find it absolutely fascinating to follow your track exploits Bowdy69, so thank you for taking the time and making the effort to share. Good on you

Regrettably, I don't have easy access to track facilities, so I find you exploration of the 1199 in its native habitat, the next best thing.

Actually having said that, I find it quite amazing that the ergonomics and civility of the 1199 allow me to happily trundle around public roads, while you click off hot laps, with neither of us feeling the machine is anything less than fit for purpose.

Cool huh

Tank you Xbox, maybe you can find your way to Australia and we can put you on one of ours at Philip island or TB 21 can show you how one should be piloted on the track... Happy holidays

I changed my rear spring from the stock 90 to an 85 today. I'm impressed with how quickly you can swap springs on this shock. No spring compressor necessary. I think it was a 30 minute job.

Took a quick ride with the softer spring and I can already tell its an improvement.

Same thing this morning Veck, put an 8.5 in using the original valving, seems that the valving on initial set up is close, the spring is a compromise by Ducati to spread across a section of riding groups...

So today I am riding the S only, no point is trying the standard until I've fitted a shock, we wait for a TTX... In the mean time I will valve the front forks on the standard, get some 1.1 and .95 springs for wet and dry changes and that should be enough...

So to some other small but significant points, the gearing is critical to keeping the motor on the boil, when its revved its "fast" this is going to be more of a factor than I initially thought, given we can not bomb the motor and go in search of more torque and power there is a very different riding style required, I am assuming that is why the "R" has another 500 rpm to play with, so getting the gearing right is a factor to being competitive. Using the S today will show if the additional torque from the stock headers helps with drive off the corner...

What does this all mean for road riding, well, as I pointed out in my "fitting a termi system" thread, the best around set up for torque and power is stock headers and better flowing can's... The termi half system, Austin racing or any other half system will achieve this in various amounts, this would translate in to better drive from the exit of the corner and generally on the road... Great work Ducati for getting the headers right...


Over all a good few days testing, the bling factor of a Tri or S is great, and some people will chose that, good on them, it's a matter of personal choice, had I been privy to this much testing prior to getting our bikes I'd of chosen 2 standards and fitted the shocks and springs and valving of choice... The DDS is another great tool, but takes commitment and time to use, some of us on the forum will use it, not so sure it improves things on a road bike...

I'm happy with the investment, it's going to be a great season of racing in 2013, the bikes are great, look, sound, feel, better than my Yamaha's, and they had a lot of time spent on them... We had a huge amount of interest over the past weekend, lots of people taking photos and just asking about the bikes... For that alone they are worth it, sponsor value comes from sparking interest from the public, and as we all know Ducati is king for that... With or without messers Rossi and Burgess..

veck said:

I changed my rear spring from the stock 90 to an 85 today. I'm impressed with how quickly you can swap springs on this shock. No spring compressor necessary. I think it was a 30 minute job.

Took a quick ride with the softer spring and I can already tell its an improvement.

Click to expand...

Where did you get it?