Baseline geometry settings for 1199?

I spoke to the Ohlins tech regarding the NIX30 forks. The rebound and compression are separate fork tubes. The compression is pretty straight forward, but on the rebound side. It's very different from conventional design, he specifically said not to adjust by bouncing standing still, otherwise you'll end up dialing rebound all the way in.

Start with 12 clicks, standard and work your way +4/-4, +2/-2, +1/-1 method. First go with 16 clicks without adjusting anything else, and try 8 clicks. The difference should be big enough where you have a preference. So if you like 8 clicks, next go 6 and 10... This helps you find the baseline real fast.

But remember, all other adjustments can affect your bike, so document all your changes.

jyli19 said:

I spoke to the Ohlins tech regarding the NIX30 forks. The rebound and compression are separate fork tubes. The compression is pretty straight forward, but on the rebound side. It's very different from conventional design, he specifically said not to adjust by bouncing standing still, otherwise you'll end up dialing rebound all the way in.

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Thanks, that's helpful. I'd read vague references to Ohlins not wanting people to use the bounce method on their forks but this gives me confidence that I probably don't need a re-valve.

Ductard said:

Thanks, that's helpful. I'd read vague references to Ohlins not wanting people to use the bounce method on their forks but this gives me confidence that I probably don't need a re-valve.

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Are you using a zip tie or such to check your travel during sessions? Not as good as a linear pot and DDA, but it is a lot cheaper...

Be mindful of the ziptie technique. I was using that as a reference with my local suspension tuner once and he cut me off and asked if I always clipped the curbing on one part of the track where everyone does. Took me a second to realize that it was going to get moved significantly further at that one spot due to the impact.

Steve B said:

Are you using a zip tie or such to check your travel during sessions? Not as good as a linear pot and DDA, but it is a lot cheaper...

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You're not taking about one of the Ducati Data Analyzers are you? I have one but it is with the dealer for warranty repair, but I don't think the suspension "talks to" that, at least my base model 1199?

Yes to zipties. Front and rear. 30mm from the end of the tube to the bottom of the band when at bottom (33 to dust seal) have about 10mm of travel to spare....looks crazy to have 40mm of tube left but 10mm to spare isn't bad, right?

For the rear; I have 2-5 mm to spare on the rod inside the shock, plus the zip-tie is ~3mm thick, which would translate to a lot more actual travel at the axle...that's why I'm thinking about backing out the pre-load a couple turns.

Ductard said:

You're not taking about one of the Ducati Data Analyzers are you? I have one but it is with the dealer for warranty repair, but I don't think the suspension "talks to" that, at least my base model 1199?

Yes to zipties. Front and rear. 30mm from the end of the tube to the bottom of the band when at bottom (33 to dust seal) have about 10mm of travel to spare....looks crazy to have 40mm of tube left but 10mm to spare isn't bad, right?

For the rear; I have 2-5 mm to spare on the rod inside the shock, plus the zip-tie is ~3mm thick, which would translate to a lot more actual travel at the axle...that's why I'm thinking about backing out the pre-load a couple turns.

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I was using DDA too generically; really talking about data logging that uses linear pots on the fork/shock so you can see what your suspension's doing all the way around the track. Great information, but spendy to get at, at least for now.

If you've been doing hard laps on track, including heavy straight-line braking, and are still seeing 10mm of unused travel then you might experiment with a bit less compression damping or take a look at a small reduction in your fork oil height. Agree on the rear, and at that many turns in to get 28mm sag it looks like the 95 spring is in range for you. You might try sag at 40F/30R next time for a start and use the clickers to get the bike balanced in dive/squat response.

jyli19 said:

I spoke to the Ohlins tech regarding the NIX30 forks. The rebound and compression are separate fork tubes. The compression is pretty straight forward, but on the rebound side. It's very different from conventional design, he specifically said not to adjust by bouncing standing still, otherwise you'll end up dialing rebound all the way in.

Click to expand...

That is absolutely true, bouncing in the pits now is just to check for stiction, not to dial in the rebound damping. We all had to go through a new learning curve when the NIX stuff came out, since we had been doing it the other way for so long. I don't think anyone would find they need to be more than 3-4 clicks either direction off of baseline on any of the newer Ohlins stuff at this point. Certainly never anywhere close to having the valve nearly closed off.

Update:

TL/DR version:

1) Can anyone describe the leverage ratio curve in the rear, when the pivot is set to "F" - would it be flatter than most bikes? (suspension guy was surprised by the combination of preload, static and rider sag)
2) Much better results with 95 in the rear vs. 105. Almost back to my times last year.
3) Bike is still spinning up the rear / loose on acceleration and the front is pogo-ing a bit mid-corner.
4) Bike is going to suspension specialist's shop.

Expected Solutions:
1) Possibly lower fork oil height, if it is very high above Ohlins reco's.
2) Possibly revalve cartridges to slow down rebound.
3) Possibly go even lighter on rear spring (95 to 90), and maybe even front (10.25 to 10.0)


Long version:

Got the 95 spring in last weekend, and set the rear sag to 28mm trackside with 2 friends helping (front untouched - still ~37.)

Dialed in the suspension the next day at NYST, ended the day at 1:37-1:38 at, still not back to my 1:33-1:34's, but down from 1:41's...but by the end I've got the compression almost all the way out and the rebound almost all the way in (based on track feel, not paddock bouncing).

Bike is better, but still pogo-ing a bit and not quite squatting like I think it should.

Packed up and went to Loudon (NHMS) for LRRS R4 open test on Thursday. Track density is sparse, which unfortunately means that the suspension specialist (GMD Computrack) isn't "officially" there for the weekend yet. Take out 2 turns of rear preload, not enough time/people to re-check sag, but I figure that puts me at 29-33mm range. On the theory that the front was fighting the rear, re-set front damping back to "normal" and attempt to re-dial in, with the help of the suspension specialist's apprentice. I realize I'm feeling all sorts of bumps that I didn't even know existed before - even in pit-out, and I find the transition onto the Nascar oval in T10 is, for the first time, terrifying.

But...things feel better with the 95 spring in the rear vs. the 105.

Through the day, my times come down from 1:28 to 1:26 - better than the 1:30's I was running in last round's practice but worse than the 1:20's I was running last year on my 2004 GSX-R or the 1:25's I'm running on a motard. Again, I gravitated towards the same crazy damping settings (especially in the front).

Go to work Friday, show back up Friday night. Suspension specialist is there but there's not a lot of time...

We measure sag - turns out that (presumably because of the top-out spring) my friends and I got the sag measurements wrong and I was running ~20mm of sag and not ~30mm... He backs off a bunch of pre-load. He seems very interested in what the leverage ratio curve looks like for the bike, given the current preload, static and rider sag #'s.

I have 2 races on Saturday, only 1 on the 1199 - Unlimited Grand Prix. I miss morning practice dealing with a mechanical on the motard...

Unlimited GP - It's a full grid - things feel better during the race, and I put in a 1:24.6 to finish...not dead last.

Saturday night I decide it's worth it to pay ~$100 and miss morning practice (again) for GMD to use their fancy machine to measure the chassis and leave the bike overnight.

Get in a practice session on the motard, turns out this crazy engine-frame bike of mine can't be measured with the tools at hand.

The weather is super-iffy and I put rains on the motard and figure I will ride that bike in ALL of my races. Not touching a 195hp beast that is breaking the rear loose everywhere IN THE DRY, rain mode or no.

The weather breaks at the end of morning practice - I'll skip through an hour and a half of tire changes, but I get ready for BACK TO BACK RACES on different bikes.

I feel pretty good in Supertwins (turned in a 1:23.073) but I really turn it up in Unlimited Superbike, coming up from a grid position of 20th (dead last) to finish 10th, and turning in a time of 1:20.870 (almost as good as my PB of 1:20.000 on my GSX-R 600), but I would have expected to be in the 1:18-1:19 range with the comfort that ice-biking gave me this winter (I suspect that last year I would be going much lighter on the throttle on a bike with a loose rear), and the extra HP and better handling of the 1199 vs. a 10 year old GSXR-600 (albeit that thing was dialed in by its PO).

The bike is still loose in the rear on the drive out, and still pogo-ing midcorner when it gets unsettled, although not nearly as badly.

So the bike is going, in its entirety, to the suspension shop.

Here are my theories on what I think might be wrong:

1) I believe the oil height is currently 170mm, vs. the 190mm someone posted here and I verified on my Ohlins cartridge install instructions. - this may be what is causing the front to feel so stiff. I had taken it from ~165 to 170, and I vaguely remember the guy I had install the cartridges telling me he questioning 190 and set it higher, but I could take more out if it felt stiff (I say vaguely remember, I might be making this whole conversation up in my head, as it would have taken place in March).

2) Cartridges may need to be re-valved: When I called Ohlins USA, they didn't say the valving was wrong, but they did say it was on the lighter side. I'm hearing that a re-valve is fairly common for these cartridges.

3) May need to go down one more spring rate (to a 90) in the rear, and maybe even down from 10.25 to a 10.0 in the front....

Nothing about rod ends but good read nonetheless

7 year old thread and still too much info for Donna to do anything with.