Brake System Upgrade - Track/Race

MotoX183 · Sep 5, 2016

MotoX183 said:
Thanks for the info, Jarel. You and I are very similar in this regard. Yes, these runs have been @ COTA (w/heavy braking zones). I've been debating just bypassing the ABS altogether. I went to check the DDA to see if/when it may have been activating, but apparently it doesn't record that data? Unless I'm missing something, which is very possible.

I've been looking at the different caliper options from Brembo and wasn't sure about the HP Fronts (30/34mm) or the M4 Monoblocs (34/34mm). I think I'd like to run the 19mm MC, but unsure which calipers would be best and if I went with the 19mm MC, would the 18 or 20mm lever ratio be the better option? I'm leaning toward the 19x20mm MC option, as I prefer my brakes to be more aggressive on initial bite with the least amount of lever travel. I like to modulate lever pressure vs. stroke/distance.

It sounds like the T-Drive rotors may be the way to go to help with fade.

The other combo I was interested in was new pads (Z04?), new rotor(T-Drive) and RCS17 MC w/M50 calipers? Anyone run this or similar combo perhaps?

jarelj · Sep 5, 2016

MotoX183 said:
Thanks for the info, Jarel. You and I are very similar in this regard. Yes, these runs have been @ COTA (w/heavy braking zones). I've been debating just bypassing the ABS altogether. I went to check the DDA to see if/when it may have been activating, but apparently it doesn't record that data? Unless I'm missing something, which is very possible.

I've been looking at the different caliper options from Brembo and wasn't sure about the HP Fronts (30/34mm) or the M4 Monoblocs (34/34mm). I think I'd like to run the 19mm MC, but unsure which calipers would be best and if I went with the 19mm MC, would the 18 or 20mm lever ratio be the better option? I'm leaning toward the 19x20mm MC option, as I prefer my brakes to be more aggressive on initial bite with the least amount of lever travel. I like to modulate lever pressure vs. stroke/distance.

It sounds like the T-Drive rotors may be the way to go to help with fade.

Pretty much anything other than the M50's will work with the 19mm master. I prefer the 19x20 myself for the same reason you stated, I prefer short travel of the lever and modulation through pressure. More than anything I suppose it's just what I'm used to, so I stick with it. The GP-4RX calipers that I had on my last bike were awesome, but I've ran the M4's on 4 different bikes now and never had an issue with them, and as they're OEM they can be had second-hand at a good price if you're trying to stick to a budget. T-Drives are great, but the HP rotors are perfectly fine also, I've ran both multiple times and can't tell a functional difference between them.

MotoX183 · Sep 7, 2016

jarelj said:
Pretty much anything other than the M50's will work with the 19mm master. I prefer the 19x20 myself for the same reason you stated, I prefer short travel of the lever and modulation through pressure. More than anything I suppose it's just what I'm used to, so I stick with it. The GP4-RX calipers that I had on my last bike were awesome, but I've ran the M4's on 4 different bikes now and never had an issue with them, and as they're OEM they can be had second-hand at a good price if you're trying to stick to a budget. T-Drives are great, but the HP rotors are perfectly fine also, I've ran both multiple times and can't tell a functional difference between them.

Sorry for all the questions and thanks for all the detailed info. Would you say there was a noticeable difference between the GP-4RX and M4 calipers? I'm always trying to keep an eye on the bottom line, but if there is real value I'd rather just invest the $$ up-front. I always kick myself in the ... when I decide something purely based on the budget.. needs to be a bit of a balance IMO. Going for a solid improvement all around, without getting nutty..

Also found this kinda cool article from CW editor chatting with MotoGP Brembo engineer directly.. seemed fitting for this thread. Brembo Carbon-Carbon MotoGP Racing Brake Systems | Cycle World

cmepasu · Sep 7, 2016

Running and RCS 19 master, M4 calipers, T-drives and XRAC pads on my 1199s (with ABS). Very happy with the set-up. Good modulation and feeling at the lever (even better now with T-drives - something interesting about the thicker material - feels more solid/confident), not noticing any fade either.

I've been reading a lot about the ABS unit causing issues with lever throw and modulation. Not sure if I just got a blessed unit, or its just my style of riding - but my system works flawlessly on track and street. I've never had it "let go" under braking and I'm now just starting to loft the rear wheel off the ground (level 1 ABS setting) under hard braking.

Very happy with this set-up. Will try Z04 pads next to see what that does.

jarelj · Sep 7, 2016

MotoX183 said:
Sorry for all the questions and thanks for all the detailed info. Would you say there was a noticeable difference between the GP-4RX and M4 calipers? I'm always trying to keep an eye on the bottom line, but if there is real value I'd rather just invest the $$ up-front. I always kick myself in the ... when I decide something purely based on the budget.. needs to be a bit of a balance IMO. Going for a solid improvement all around, without getting nutty..

Yes, I'd say if you had identical brake setups with the GP-4RX calipers on one bike and M4 calipers on the other, and rode them back to back, you'd probably notice the difference. The billet calipers just have a more solid feel, i.e. more of your lever pressure translates directly to braking power. It's subtle though, so "bang for the buck" the M4's are pretty good.

SuperDuc29 · Sep 8, 2016

Boy, did I get an education about braking on the track with the Panigales in this thread. I'm very happy with my stock M50 brakes and thought those were the best. As an intermediate rider apparently I'm not riding fast enough to exploit the weaknesses. With some advanced instruction, I learned to brake lighter and longer rather than the shorter and heavier method I had been using (hammering at the brakes). The one weakness I have noted was air getting into the MC but a quick bleed (discussed in another thread) at the MC takes care of that although not perfect. I'm starting to see why here. Dammit, more money to spend!

Davyc · Sep 8, 2016

Turn off the ABS, replace brake hoses to decent race spec/replace brake fluid with high grade race and a decent set of sinister pads, this should see you through.
Regards

Chaotic · Sep 9, 2016

I haven't thought about the brake lines. Aren't they Steel from the factory? Is there a benefit to be had from aftermarket lines?

reganc · Sep 9, 2016

Chaotic said:
I haven't thought about the brake lines. Aren't they Steel from the factory? Is there a benefit to be had from aftermarket lines?

yea the brake lines are already steel and decent quality. I don't see any reason to replace.

reganc · Sep 9, 2016

MotoX183 said:
The other combo I was interested in was new pads (Z04?), new rotor(T-Drive) and RCS17 MC w/M50 calipers? Anyone run this or similar combo perhaps?

I have a similar setup using the Brembo Superstock rotors, Z04 and RCS and everything feels great and I'm not noticing any brake fade. I might upgrade to the GP4 at some stage if I feel like I need the upgrade or just want the bling.

MotoX183 · Sep 9, 2016

reganc said:
I have a similar setup using the Brembo Superstock rotors, Z04 and RCS and everything feels great and I'm not noticing any brake fade. I might upgrade to the GP4 at some stage if I feel like I need the upgrade or just want the bling.

I may give this a go initially and see how it goes. Might be enough to get what I'm looking for and save a few bucks on calipers.

reganc · Sep 10, 2016

MotoX183 said:
I may give this a go initially and see how it goes. Might be enough to get what I'm looking for and save a few bucks on calipers.

that was my thinking, i actually ran this set up at COTA and it was good but you might be riding harder than me.

Brake System Upgrade - Track/Race

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