Ducati Corse Oil - Special Oil developed by Shell and Ducati Corse

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VYRUS said:
I would like to clarify and add additional information to my original post. If you look closely at the labels on Motul 300V “Road Racing” and their “off road” oils, you’ll notice a change in the Road Racing 300V. It now says “Organic Base”. The off road 300V still says “Ester base”. This is a big difference. Ester base oil is superior to organic base oil. I’ve noticed Motul’s automotive 300V oils also changed to the “organic” verbiage. I suspect the reason is so that Motul can get the API certification for their higher selling automotive and street motorcycle oil. Off road does not need to comply with emissions regulations.
I’m not feeling as warm and fussy about Motul these days. It’s still excellent oil, but I’m interested in the absolute best oil for our motorcycles. I know there are lots of options, but I prefer to stick with a more factual approach. One oil I forgot to mention, is Maxima “Extra”. This is a API Group 5 Ester synthetic oil that comes in all the usual viscosities. Their 10W/60 and 15W/50 would be the most common for our use. What really stands out on their Technical Data Sheet is the VI (Viscosity Index). The VI is well over 210 for both of these oils. VI tells you how fast the oil shears down. Or, how well does the oil maintain its original viscosity. Straight cut gears in high performance motorcycle engines is very hard on the oil. That’s one reason automotive oil is not good in a dry clutch motorcycle. Automotive oils shear down very quickly in a motorcycle. The lower the VI, the faster the oil breaks down. Motul 300V is about 180. Mobil One motorcycle oils are about 160. Maxima “Extra” has the highest VI I can find. Oil companies often don’t publish all of their technical data. That means the consumer must infer things from the data they do publish. In order to have a VI above 210, the oil must also have very high quality in other important areas. The HTHS and NOACK volatility must also be very good. Maxima Extra will also have double the zinc. The only other high zinc ester Synthetic motorcycle oil is Red Line Power Sport. If you want to continue with 300V, I would use the off road version.
One last thing, Maxima Extra is the most expensive of all these oils. Ester base stocks are very expensive, but also the highest quality.
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Are these two the same? Just marketing change? @VYRUS
 

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When did you buy those? I bought this one in November of 2023 while preparing for a beginning of the season oil change.

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bp_SFV4 said:
When did you buy those? I bought this one in November of 2023 while preparing for a beginning of the season oil change.

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Let’s see if I can explain this without screwing it up.
The Motul you’re showing is the good ester oil. But Motul is now producing 300V2 that says “organic” on the bottle. I’ll attach photos at the end of my comments.
If you look at any oils SDS (Safety Data Sheet), under section 3, they list the actual ingredients in their oil. They’ll often have long chemical names that don’t make sense. But if you see lots of references to petroleum, or “severally hydrocracked mineral oil”, or heavy perifin base oil”, these are not signs of ester oil. Ester oil typically says “synthetic base stock”, or has complicated chemical names. Ester oil must have some small amounts of petroleum oil for carrying certain additives.
Motul now has a 300V with a small number 2 after the “V”. It also says “organic” on the bottle. That’s not the oil you want.
As I was looking at Motul’s website, I noticed they have a new 0W/30 racing oil for the Honda CBR 1000 RR-R. That’s Honda’s MotoGP replica. That oil has a VI of 257. That’s a big number. If looks like this is the equivalent of Ducati’s special racing oil. This Motul oil for Honda is over $40 per quart.
Here’s some pics of the 300V you asked about, and the SDS for Maxima Extra. Remember, it’s section 3 that shows what’s really in the oil.
 

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One other comment while I’m on a rant. I love it when people who don’t know anything about oil, are always saying you should follow the manufacturer’s recommendations. The Engineers who built the engine know what’s the best oil. These know-it-alls haven’t got a clue about the mountain of emissions regulations that must be complied with. The Motul 0W/30 oil for the Honda CBR 1000 RR-R is a great example of what Engineers recommend when they don’t have to consider the emissions. That engine has to cost over $100K. Honda definitely doesn’t want to pay any warranty claims for that thing. Motul’s 0W/30 is the recommended oil in the Owners Manual. If you look at the SDS section 3 for the oil, it’s 2 pages of chemicals. If you can afford a $250,000 motorcycle, you can afford $40 oil. Plus they change it every 600 miles. So when the Engineers aren’t muzzled, this is the oil they require. Your Ducati engine is equal to, if not superior to the Honda.
 
OK, so looking at the spec sheets that you have shown above, are you saying we need to be putting the 15w-60 off-road dirt bike oil in our pani v4??

I cannot find their 15w-50 version for road racing
 
VYRUS said:
One other comment while I’m on a rant. I love it when people who don’t know anything about oil, are always saying you should follow the manufacturer’s recommendations. The Engineers who built the engine know what’s the best oil. These know-it-alls haven’t got a clue about the mountain of emissions regulations that must be complied with. The Motul 0W/30 oil for the Honda CBR 1000 RR-R is a great example of what Engineers recommend when they don’t have to consider the emissions. That engine has to cost over $100K. Honda definitely doesn’t want to pay any warranty claims for that thing. Motul’s 0W/30 is the recommended oil in the Owners Manual. If you look at the SDS section 3 for the oil, it’s 2 pages of chemicals. If you can afford a $250,000 motorcycle, you can afford $40 oil. Plus they change it every 600 miles. So when the Engineers aren’t muzzled, this is the oil they require. Your Ducati engine is equal to, if not superior to the Honda.
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I’m confused - what cbr 1000 is $250k?
 
SirJAG said:
OK, so looking at the spec sheets that you have shown above, are you saying we need to be putting the 15w-60 off-road dirt bike oil in our pani v4??

I cannot find their 15w-50 version for road racing
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It seems racing/off-road merely drops the regulatory compliance for emission nonsense. So, yes. I wouldn't put much weight of it's intended purpose by there being a picture of a dirt bike on the bottle. The organic is labeled road/off-road. So the off-road term appears on both. Racing on the good stuff though.
 
bp_SFV4 said:
It seems racing/off-road merely drops the regulatory compliance for emission nonsense. So, yes. I wouldn't put much weight of it's intended purpose by there being a picture of a dirt bike on the bottle. The organic is labeled road/off-road. So the off-road term appears on both. Racing on the good stuff though.
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Yes, but looking at his screenshots and then I go and look at the safety data sheet for each and only the dirtbike off-road one appears to be the group 5…. Are you seeing something different?

There is no group 5 15w50 300V is what it looks like to me
 
bp_SFV4 said:
It seems racing/off-road merely drops the regulatory compliance for emission nonsense. So, yes. I wouldn't put much weight of it's intended purpose by there being a picture of a dirt bike on the bottle. The organic is labeled road/off-road. So the off-road term appears on both. Racing on the good stuff though.
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I would not be inclined to run an alternate weight oil without reassurance from a verified reliable source that it was safe to do so. It is my understanding oil weight is not a haphazard guess, but rather, is specifically matched to the clearances to which the motor is built. Running an optimal 60wt oil in a motor requiring a 50wt oil might lead to problems far earlier than running a slightly suboptimal 50wt.
 
VYRUS said:
One other comment while I’m on a rant. I love it when people who don’t know anything about oil, are always saying you should follow the manufacturer’s recommendations. The Engineers who built the engine know what’s the best oil. These know-it-alls haven’t got a clue about the mountain of emissions regulations that must be complied with. The Motul 0W/30 oil for the Honda CBR 1000 RR-R is a great example of what Engineers recommend when they don’t have to consider the emissions. That engine has to cost over $100K. Honda definitely doesn’t want to pay any warranty claims for that thing. Motul’s 0W/30 is the recommended oil in the Owners Manual. If you look at the SDS section 3 for the oil, it’s 2 pages of chemicals. If you can afford a $250,000 motorcycle, you can afford $40 oil. Plus they change it every 600 miles. So when the Engineers aren’t muzzled, this is the oil they require. Your Ducati engine is equal to, if not superior to the Honda.
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And why shouldn't I run the Shell super duper oil in my V4R? I don't understand all the mental gymnastics required to find a different oil than what is spec'd by Ducati.
 

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