Ducati Performance kit for Ducati 899 Panigale

MrKO · Jan 15, 2014

outhouse said:
It was mentioned I believe. The difference is negligible.

Why is the full swingarm better?

The flex of the rear on the 1199 has been discussed on here. But it has flex issues do to all the power, how much ... this I do not actually know.

I would like to see lap times with a novice rider on a 1199 base and 899 base. My guess is the 899 would post the fast time, as long as the front straight isnt to long.
I dont think we have seen the full potential of the 899 yet.

jarelj · Jan 15, 2014

MrKO said:
The flex of the rear on the 1199 has been discussed on here. But it has flex issues do to all the power, how much ... this I do not actually know.

I would like to see lap times with a novice rider on a 1199 base and 899 base. My guess is the 899 would post the fast time, as long as the front straight isnt to long.
I dont think we have seen the full potential of the 899 yet.

A true novice rider on the track would probably be running the same lap time on either bike, or might even be faster on the 1199 if it's a track with some long straights. An experienced rider who is not a professional racer may very well be faster on the 899 on an average track, not a really big track like Road America or Miller. I'm not a professional racer, but also not slow having raced and ridden at hundreds of track days. My fastest lap time at both of my home tracks was on my old 2008 848 race bike (may it rest in peace..... or in pieces more accurately....), and not my 1098, 1198S or 1199. The 1199 was the fastest of the big bikes, but still a few 10ths slower than the 848. And that's running lap times consistently within a couple tenths per lap over and over again, so a pretty good comparison. The difference was in coming out of the turns at the absolute limit at full throttle on the 848, whereas I couldn't do that on the big bikes, they'd either wheelie or spin up the rear tire (or the TC would kick in) at that last 10/10th of the throttle. A top-level pro can use that to their advantage, but not the average club racer like me, I'm not going to ride crossed-up wheelies out of the turns like Troy Bayliss.

MrKO · Jan 15, 2014

jarelj said:
A true novice rider on the track would probably be running the same lap time on either bike, or might even be faster on the 1199 if it's a track with some long straights. An experienced rider who is not a professional racer may very well be faster on the 899 on an average track, not a really big track like Road America or Miller. I'm not a professional racer, but also not slow having raced and ridden at hundreds of track days. My fastest lap time at both of my home tracks was on my old 2008 848 race bike (may it rest in peace..... or in pieces more accurately....), and not my 1098, 1198S or 1199. The 1199 was the fastest of the big bikes, but still a few 10ths slower than the 848. And that's running lap times consistently within a couple tenths per lap over and over again, so a pretty good comparison. The difference was in coming out of the turns at the absolute limit at full throttle on the 848, whereas I couldn't do that on the big bikes, they'd either wheelie or spin up the rear tire (or the TC would kick in) at that last 10/10th of the throttle. A top-level pro can use that to their advantage, but not the average club racer like me, I'm not going to ride crossed-up wheelies out of the turns like Troy Bayliss.

I was thinking more of an intermediate track rider. You hit exactly on what I was thinking. Novice would be more like, gas... BRAKE BRAKE BRAKE .. turning turning... GAS GAS GAS lol.

jarelj · Jan 16, 2014

MrKO said:
I was thinking more of an intermediate track rider. You hit exactly on what I was thinking. Novice would be more like, gas... BRAKE BRAKE BRAKE .. turning turning... GAS GAS GAS lol.

Exactly! In our riding school we call that a "Screamer-Parker".

supersport · Apr 8, 2014

I just sold my 11199 and bought a 899. People who say there is "wet mode" does not know what hey are talking about. Two completely different bikes. The 1199 is very exciting and explosive. The 899 is butter smooth.

The real wannabes are the people that cant dice it.

jcbertin · May 31, 2014

Trauma said:
I am afraid I must disagree. The fact that the 2 prices are so close, the buyers probably aren't wanabees. We should probably start a thread on the why. I heard it is an easier bike to ride hard, as it is a bit tamer. And some people just don't want a liter plus bike. Never met any ( ) but they are out there.

If its resale doesn't hold as well as the 1199, then I could see people buying it for price.

PS I noticed the MWR wasn't in the kit

Most that I have seen purchase the 899 specifically they are for the track. I have a 1199R and can confirm for most mortals it is way too much power the track let alone the street. I do love my 1199R but want a dedicated 899 for the track as it has the been balance of power/suspension/chassis/etc. Shoot even the R6 has plenty of power for most anyone to race.

tcelano · Jun 1, 2014

Ditto. The 1199R is way fast. I do decent lap times for just being a track-day rider, and DDA shows the only time I'm ever at 100% WOT is down the main straight, and pretty much only once in 4th gear. Dealer let me ride the first 899 that came in last fall, and I really liked it . Totally different. So smooth. I think the only real solution is to get both. I'm certain I could lap just as fast on it with good tires. I think a really good rider would go faster on the 1199, but most people don't have the conditioning to judge braking and corner entry from the speeds that the 1199 generates, and thus end up slower at the apex than they would be on a slightly less ridiculous machine. The outright track record here is now held by a race-prepped 1199, so in the right hands, it's very potent.

jarelj · Jun 1, 2014

tcelano said:
Ditto. The 1199R is way fast. I do decent lap times for just being a track-day rider, and DDA shows the only time I'm ever at 100% WOT is down the main straight, and pretty much only once in 4th gear. Dealer let me ride the first 899 that came in last fall, and I really liked it . Totally different. So smooth. I think the only real solution is to get both. I'm certain I could lap just as fast on it with good tires. I think a really good rider would go faster on the 1199, but most people don't have the conditioning to judge braking and corner entry from the speeds that the 1199 generates, and thus end up slower at the apex than they would be on a slightly less ridiculous machine. The outright track record here is now held by a race-prepped 1199, so in the right hands, it's very potent.

Brilliant analysis, spot on! I can attest that the 899 is a great track day bike, and is certainly easier to get the most out of vs. the 1199R for anyone below the level of a top club racer. And on a short to mid-length track, even a top club racer would struggle to run faster laps on an equally setup 1199R vs. the 899.

reganc · Jun 1, 2014

I recently ran a 899 on track and street and was blown away with just how good it is and surprised at how light it felt when in fact it's heavier than my 1199R.

For me the 1199R is too much bike at times for most tracks and most certainly for the street and the 899 ticks a lot of boxes, in fact it was so good i'm contemplating selling the 1199r for one.

Phl · Jun 1, 2014

Tight chicanes in a gear higher and early on the gas, lord torque will work it

jarelj said:
Besides the smaller bore, the 899 has a shorter stroke than the 1199, a completely different crank, different flywheel, etc. If it's anything like the difference between the 848 and 1198, the reduced centrifugal force resisting turning is very noticeable, especially in high-speed turns at high RPM's. A lot of people assume it's the chicanes where you're flipping back and forth where it's most noticeable, but that's not true because you're at a much lower RPM so there's less spinning force in the engine at that point. 899 is also geared a LOT shorter, 15/44 compared to 15/39 on the 1199, so will be at a higher RPM at any given speed and will spin up quicker. It's also easy to assume that you can "control the power with your right hand" on the 1199 to produce the same experience as riding the 899, but in practice it's not really that easy. Twisting the throttle to the stop is very easy compared to twisting the throttle to 7/8ths or 15/16ths or 31/32nds etc. And on an 1199 the difference between 7/8ths and full throttle is HUGE.

jarelj · Jun 2, 2014

Phl said:
Tight chicanes in a gear higher and early on the gas, lord torque will work it

Is that in another language besides English??

outhouse · Jun 2, 2014

MrKO said:
I would like to see lap times with a novice rider on a 1199 base and 899 base. My guess is the 899 would post the fast time, as long as the front straight isnt to long.
.

I loved the 848, and did a decent job pushing it around. The 1199 did make me instantly faster. But I would say it is the suspension I have on the S and just the way the bike was set up. The 899 needs Ohlins now.

As good as I could get the 848 the tires were always flared a bit on the sipes, on the 1199 the tires are wearing perfectly.

On a track, or my canyons, I honestly think I would be just flat beating on the 899 to get it to keep up with the 1199.

I would agree most of my performance is due to set up and suspension, but the HP is a welcome addition. In 1rst and 2nd on both bikes I have the red lights working constantly, and 3rd when the curves open up a bit. Anywhere under a 100 in second the extra torque is easily felt from the 1199.

Guess I would have to push one through the canyons to answer.

JHTmcrider · Jun 3, 2014

Great day for modding!

jarelj · Jun 3, 2014

outhouse said:
I loved the 848, and did a decent job pushing it around. The 1199 did make me instantly faster. But I would say it is the suspension I have on the S and just the way the bike was set up. The 899 needs Ohlins now.

As good as I could get the 848 the tires were always flared a bit on the sipes, on the 1199 the tires are wearing perfectly.

On a track, or my canyons, I honestly think I would be just flat beating on the 899 to get it to keep up with the 1199.

I would agree most of my performance is due to set up and suspension, but the HP is a welcome addition. In 1rst and 2nd on both bikes I have the red lights working constantly, and 3rd when the curves open up a bit. Anywhere under a 100 in second the extra torque is easily felt from the 1199.

Guess I would have to push one through the canyons to answer.

Ok, so might as well turn this into a debate......

So you're saying you have "red lights working constantly" on corner exits on the 1199. Implying that you're at 100% throttle? On corner exits? On an 1199? On the street? You're at 100% throttle on an 1199? Above 6000 rpm, or you're lugging it out of the corners at 4000 rpm and getting to full throttle before the torque curve starts? Is there video of this from your Isle of Man races that you have apparently entered this year?

Phl · Jun 3, 2014

jarelj said:
Is that in another language besides English??

ja.

Eleven 99 · Jun 3, 2014

jarelj said:
Ok, so might as well turn this into a debate...... So you're saying you have "red lights working constantly" on corner exits on the 1199. Implying that you're at 100% throttle? On corner exits? On an 1199? On the street? You're at 100% throttle on an 1199? Above 6000 rpm, or you're lugging it out of the corners at 4000 rpm and getting to full throttle before the torque curve starts? Is there video of this from your Isle of Man races that you have apparently entered this year?

It's possible to ride the 1199 like that on the street............. in wet mode.

jarelj · Jun 3, 2014

Eleven 99 said:
It's possible to ride the 1199 like that on the street............. in wet mode.

That doesn't count!!

reganc · Jun 3, 2014

outhouse said:
I loved the 848, and did a decent job pushing it around. The 1199 did make me instantly faster. But I would say it is the suspension I have on the S and just the way the bike was set up. The 899 needs Ohlins now.

As good as I could get the 848 the tires were always flared a bit on the sipes, on the 1199 the tires are wearing perfectly.

On a track, or my canyons, I honestly think I would be just flat beating on the 899 to get it to keep up with the 1199.

I would agree most of my performance is due to set up and suspension, but the HP is a welcome addition. In 1rst and 2nd on both bikes I have the red lights working constantly, and 3rd when the curves open up a bit. Anywhere under a 100 in second the extra torque is easily felt from the 1199.

Guess I would have to push one through the canyons to answer.

i don't know what level you are running at the track and i presume expert but in my opinion the 1199 is very hard to ride with a full open throttle as there is just so much power and there are very few places you can do it unless the track has a lot of long straights.

I personally think that the majority of people would be faster on a 899 then a 1199 as least for me thats the case as it turns in a lot easier and you can use a lot more of the power.

And for people who say the 899 is a 1199 in wet mode clearly have not ridden the bike as they are completely different.

BTrain5489 · Jun 3, 2014

Does no one live near a properly fast track?

jarelj · Jun 3, 2014

BTrain5489 said:
Does no one live near a properly fast track?

Not me, I'm going to Road America on July 3rd, but have to drive 10 hours to get there! Miller is about 14 hours away, so is COTA. My 3 "local" tracks within 3 hours of here are all 2.2-2.6 miles long, without any straight long enough to get 6th gear on an 1199.

Ducati Performance kit for Ducati 899 Panigale

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