Extended Swing Arm Shock and Spring Rate

MaverickiB said:

Oh jeez, that article again.

That was done in wet conditions as far as I can remember. In wet conditions, machines can end up being heavily limited. More power to weight ratio becomes less of an advantage when the conditions limit your ability to apply said power. I don't think the times would be that close in the dry, and regardless, 2 seconds a lap in racing is a pretty big deal.

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Elbow dowin on slicks in the wet?

Steven31371 said:

Do you know if the Corse version is still one sided, and what all do you have to change on the rear to run it, i.e. wheel hubs, axles etc?

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The Corse swinger is still single sided. OEM eccentric hub and axle work, but it doesn't make much sense to buy a Corse swinger and not get trick magnesium eccentric hub and Ti axle setup. The other issue you might have is the Corse swinger likely requires its unique brake caliper/wheel speed sensor bracket, which uses a different spacing for the rear caliper. I am not sure if the Evol Technology bracket (the one I'm using) also works on the Corse swinger, that's a question for SBU.

rac1ngsnak3 said:

Didn’t you say?


Not really a straw man debate when you literally said this.

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True, but again, I never said that’s my only reason for getting or that I think it will cure all ills.

Stability in general is what I’m trying to build into this bike, at my riding level, the more stable the bike is, the faster I’ll ride it. That includes less wheelie as a big component, but ALSO better braking and acceleration stability, and a higher limit of corner grip at lean angles, which granted that last bit might not be something I NEED yet, but the further out the limit of grip is the less close I come to it and therefore there’s a tiny bit more safety as I learn.

Steven31371 said:

Dude I don’t know how to say this without sounding like an ass but here goes…I worked my ass off for 30 years to the point where I make a .... ton of money now, and like my toys….and have enough income that if a part makes a toy even marginally better it’s within my means to do so, and I like good engineering.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen you reply to a post here where you were like: “yeah you should do that but here’s some extra useful info”

Dunno why but every mod people talk about here your default position is to just say don’t do it and here’s why, instead of offering technical advice.

Kinda weird to be honest.

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You ask dumb questions, you get dumb answers.

Steven31371 said:

True, but again, I never said that’s my only reason for getting or that I think it will cure all ills.

Stability in general is what I’m trying to build into this bike, at my riding level, the more stable the bike is, the faster I’ll ride it. That includes less wheelie as a big component, but ALSO better braking and acceleration stability, and a higher limit of corner grip at lean angles, which granted that last bit might not be something I NEED yet, but the further out the limit of grip is the less close I come to it and therefore there’s a tiny bit more safety as I learn.

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The technical solution to the problem you’ve caused is to revert back to stock gearing.

And since you lightened the front wheel with those carbon rotors revert back to the steel rotors.

Problems solved.

MaverickiB said:

The Corse swinger is still single sided. OEM eccentric hub and axle work, but it doesn't make much sense to buy a Corse swinger and not get trick magnesium eccentric hub and Ti axle setup. The other issue you might have is the Corse swinger likely requires its unique brake caliper/wheel speed sensor bracket, which uses a different spacing for the rear caliper. I am not sure if the Evol Technology bracket (the one I'm using) also works on the Corse swinger, that's a question for SBU.

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Yeah, I was more concerned about deviating from stock sizing and metrics on everything and then figuring all that out.

I’m all for upgrading the materials and design improved parts, lighter and stronger is great, just not ready to run a completely different rear end set on this bike with sizing and all that stuff.

Later I’ll build track bike to spec


As an aside, I somewhat gingerly went tooling around the neighborhood on that gixxer, dude if feels better than the Ducati in a lot of ways despite being a lot heavier abs with less power, it’s just set up really well.

And those brakes!…love them

rac1ngsnak3 said:

The technical solution to the problem you’ve caused is to revert back to stock gearing.

And since you lightened the front wheel with those carbon rotors revert back to the steel rotors.

Problems solved.

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Or…..not?


I’m curious, in your mind, when, if ever, should someone deviate from the stock setup for a bike that’s intended to be riden say 70 % street abs 30% track?

Steven31371 said:

Do you know if the Corse version is still one sided, and what all do you have to change on the rear to run it, i.e. wheel hubs, axles etc?

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Yes the Corse arm is single side. There is a Corse part number for their hub, axle, caliper bracket, flange, WSS, sprocket etc. The hub is different however a standard hub will fit as well as the axle assembly and standard caliper bracket. Here is a shot of the corse setup showing the hub section. I do have one of these things somewhere I got from Ben. Ill have to find it but the fit into the swing arm is dimensionally the same as my RAM/Febur hub. I am not going to guarantee that there wouldn't be some trinkets that needed to be modded here and there but overall, it should bolt right up. Call Pierobon. I am 99% positive they made this. I have the Ti axles and mag hubs if you have to have them as well as the spacers and bearing bearing assemblies of you can get the axle from Daniel at BDS. Not sure if their are any more mag hubs out there.

Steven31371 said:

Or…..not?


I’m curious, in your mind, when, if ever, should someone deviate from the stock setup for a bike that’s intended to be riden say 70 % street abs 30% track?

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Sorry for the length but you asked and ye shall receive.

You don't have to change anything really for street. But the first things I'd do is change out touch points and tailor the bike fit first with rearsets and bars and get the suspension properly set up (really only need the right springs for now) from a reputable tuner (reputable is the key word here). Then just run the bike. A V4 Foggy edition is an awesome bike. I'm jealous. Seriously. For a dedicated track weapon, then I'd start pursuing these other items to lighten and improve drive. For a majority street bike it's overkill.

Also, the comment about silliness isn't meant to be Karen-ish. It's meant more that I'm concerned for your safety. I'd hate for you to bin a sweet bike and you get hurt. I've been there riding over my head on the street. Literally had a tank slapper (GPR steering damper installed) that ripped the bars out of my hands because I was stupidly power wheelie-ing out of a corner and hit a road seam and just by sheer luck didn't die.

If I had your money, I'd buy the services of a dedicated riding coach and just do trackdays every weekend. Shoot even rent out a track to myself for a day if I could. You'd make leaps and bounds of improvement to your skill.

IMHO, I feel like you're getting suckered by some of the people you're talking to. Like the fox is in the henhouse kind of a thing. People who sell you stuff have an agenda.

But I'm a practical guy. I bought a 959 bc I got it for a song and then Ducati literally gave me money to buy it (0% financing). It also was cheaper to insure bc it's under 1000 cc. But it's a good all-round bike. Fast enough for majority of people. I don't need to be fast in a straight line. I'd rather be fast in the corners. I upgraded the wheels because the stock ones are anchors (literally dropped 14 lbs off the bike), Akra slip on (lost another 5 lbs), rearsets (huge upgrade, my riding position is so much better now), and fitted Ohlins fork carts/TTX shock with the right springs. I'm a light guy at 135 lbs fully equip'd and 5'7" so dialing in a bike made for someone bigger and heavier was important. Most will ridicule my stature. I don't give a ..... I'm probably fitter and healthier than the people that mock my weight/height.

I thought about a Pierobon DSSA for the 959. Even talked to Silvia at Pierobon about it. Got invited to tour the factory if I ever came to visit. But after mulling it over, again like you I've got a 70% street/30% track bike and it'd be overkill. I was so close to pulling the trigger but my practicality overruled. If/when I convert it to a dedicated track bike, then I'll revisit this.

rac1ngsnak3 said:

Sorry for the length but you asked and ye shall receive.

You don't have to change anything really for street. But the first things I'd do is change out touch points and tailor the bike fit first with rearsets and bars and get the suspension properly set up (really only need the right springs for now) from a reputable tuner (reputable is the key word here). Then just run the bike. A V4 Foggy edition is an awesome bike. I'm jealous. Seriously. For a dedicated track weapon, then I'd start pursuing these other items to lighten and improve drive. For a majority street bike it's overkill.

Also, the comment about silliness isn't meant to be Karen-ish. It's meant more that I'm concerned for your safety. I'd hate for you to bin a sweet bike and you get hurt. I've been there riding over my head on the street. Literally had a tank slapper (GPR steering damper installed) that ripped the bars out of my hands because I was stupidly power wheelie-ing out of a corner and hit a road seam and just by sheer luck didn't die.

If I had your money, I'd buy the services of a dedicated riding coach and just do trackdays every weekend. Shoot even rent out a track to myself for a day if I could. You'd make leaps and bounds of improvement to your skill.

IMHO, I feel like you're getting suckered by some of the people you're talking to. Like the fox is in the henhouse kind of a thing. People who sell you stuff have an agenda.

But I'm a practical guy. I bought a 959 bc I got it for a song and then Ducati literally gave me money to buy it (0% financing). It also was cheaper to insure bc it's under 1000 cc. But it's a good all-round bike. Fast enough for majority of people. I don't need to be fast in a straight line. I'd rather be fast in the corners. I upgraded the wheels because the stock ones are anchors (literally dropped 14 lbs off the bike), Akra slip on (lost another 5 lbs), rearsets (huge upgrade, my riding position is so much better now), and fitted Ohlins fork carts/TTX shock with the right springs. I'm a light guy at 135 lbs fully equip'd and 5'7" so dialing in a bike made for someone bigger and heavier was important. Most will ridicule my stature. I don't give a ..... I'm probably fitter and healthier than the people that mock my weight/height.

I thought about a Pierobon DSSA for the 959. Even talked to Silvia at Pierobon about it. Got invited to tour the factory if I ever came to visit. But after mulling it over, again like you I've got a 70% street/30% track bike and it'd be overkill. I was so close to pulling the trigger but my practicality overruled. If/when I convert it to a dedicated track bike, then I'll revisit this.

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I get where you’re coming from, all fairly logical and all.

But…I saw the same thing in the Porsche forums for years, either you got the mod bug or you don’t.

Perfectly logical argument to saying these are crazy performance machines ‘as is’, but…there are those of us that just can’t resist trying to improve on a good thing.

Neither camp is wrong.

But you should know by now as a long time forum participant that telling a guy with the mod bug he doesn’t NEED to do something, or worse, arguing that they SHOULDNT do something will fall largely on deaf ears to the modifier guys.

It’s just a fundamentally different mentality than yours.

We know we don’t NEED to mod this stuff…we WANT to, abs are seeking advice on how to best go about it. You on the other hand seem to want to convince people to be more assimilated to your views, and

The world takes all kinds brother, live and let live.

Man this thread is full of useless ...., yet is somewhat entertaining. I’m with Steve here. If you work hard and have the cash to throw at .... by all means experiment with it, but please bring that feedback back to the forum! I change .... on my bike almost every track day, whether it’s parts or just trying new settings.

Back to the topic. I ride my v4 pretty hard on the track and the bike does have some stability problems that seem hard to fully clean up with the stock geometry gear. Would be cool to hear if the longer swingarm helps clean that up and also see what the trade off is in terms of handling ability.

I wheelie the .... out of my bike when driving hard out of sweeping corners, usually in 2nd gear going around 90 or so. Happens so much I’ve just gotten used to riding it out. It does keep me from fully pinning the throttle in those instances and thus losing some potential lap times. It didn’t start this until I got more used to the bike on the track and got a lot faster.

I ride with an extremely fast guy that also has a v4 setup with k tech suspension. He swears by thier stuff vs Ohlins and judging by how smooth he looks at this pace I’m almost thinking to swap it out

Steven31371 said:

I get where you’re coming from, all fairly logical and all.

But…I saw the same thing in the Porsche forums for years, either you got the mod bug or you don’t.

Perfectly logical argument to saying these are crazy performance machines ‘as is’, but…there are those of us that just can’t resist trying to improve on a good thing.

Neither camp is wrong.

But you should know by now as a long time forum participant that telling a guy with the mod bug he doesn’t NEED to do something, or worse, arguing that they SHOULDNT do something will fall largely on deaf ears to the modifier guys.

It’s just a fundamentally different mentality than yours.

We know we don’t NEED to mod this stuff…we WANT to, abs are seeking advice on how to best go about it. You on the other hand seem to want to convince people to be more assimilated to your views, and

The world takes all kinds brother, live and let live.

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Hi Steven, just read through the thread and it is an interesting project to add the extended swingarm for sure. Adding the extended swingarm begs the question of how this change affects the overall balance of the bike. If just for street riding adding a bit of stability, I do not think there would be an issue. However, if the purpose is to go faster around the track, it is worth mentioning that at least for the 1199 platform, the WSBK/RS tank is very different from the standard OEM tank. Essentially what this means (talking about the 1199RS only now) is that the extended swing arm would need to be counter balanced by the Corse tank in order to replicate the desired WSBK characteristics. How about the V4? Have you looked into how the tank differ across the standard V4 and the WSBK version?

Steven31371 said:

We know we don’t NEED to mod this stuff…we WANT to

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I believe there's a name for this...???

But if you want to play Michael Ruben Rinaldi and strap blingy Corse parts on your bike, just be honest with yourself.

And @brad8266, I believe comparing yourself to Steven is apples and oranges. Exploiting the limits of the bike on track is different to modding for modding sake.

Seismic said:

Hi Steven, just read through the thread and it is an interesting project to add the extended swingarm for sure. Adding the extended swingarm begs the question of how this change affects the overall balance of the bike. If just for street riding adding a bit of stability, I do not think there would be an issue. However, if the purpose is to go faster around the track, it is worth mentioning that at least for the 1199 platform, the WSBK/RS tank is very different from the standard OEM tank. Essentially what this means (talking about the 1199RS only now) is that the extended swing arm would need to be counter balanced by the Corse tank in order to replicate the desired WSBK characteristics. How about the V4? Have you looked into how the tank differ across the standard V4 and the WSBK version?

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Valid points. There are a few different fuel tanks that I have seen. Not sure there is an official "corse" tank. The literature on the V2 WSBK tank was centered on CG and weight distribution so I would assume the V4 has the same agenda. Regardless of the design, all the bikes were and are running extended arms. The stock tank looks like it does a decent job of keeping the fuel contained as low as CG as possible given the exhaust config and yes the front half of the SBK tanks house electronics not gas. One of the nice things when the exhaust systems lost that loop under the seat was the ability to drop the fuel to a lower point in the chassis. Some examples starting with stock, Tamburini (damn they need a new welder), WSBK. Something to play with down the road.

I may be off on my geometry since I haven’t drawn it on paper but the additional length would require the back end to be up higher correct to maintain a good swingarm angle for correct anti squat?

rac1ngsnak3 said:

I believe there's a name for this...???

But if you want to play Michael Ruben Rinaldi and strap blingy Corse parts on your bike, just be honest with yourself.

And @brad8266, I believe comparing yourself to Steven is apples and oranges. Exploiting the limits of the bike on track is different to modding for modding sake.

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Im not a big fan of heavy handed moderation on forums, but one Porsche forum I was in all the time had an excellent feature, where you could just block a particular member, and when you did their posts remained in the thread but were deleted from view of the blocker.

It’s as if the blocked person just…disappeared to the blocker lol

Really great feature hahaha


I have to admit that not knowing either of you I thought that Mick was being pretty harsh with you, but now I kinda get it…you have strong opinions based on imagined reality.

I suspect you’re a 20 year old kid whose testicals haven’t fully dropped yet enough to think rationally and your prefrontal cortex hasn’t developed enough to have rational well considered thoughts.

So with that, I’ll not be allocating any more brain cells to you lol

Seismic said:

Hi Steven, just read through the thread and it is an interesting project to add the extended swingarm for sure. Adding the extended swingarm begs the question of how this change affects the overall balance of the bike. If just for street riding adding a bit of stability, I do not think there would be an issue. However, if the purpose is to go faster around the track, it is worth mentioning that at least for the 1199 platform, the WSBK/RS tank is very different from the standard OEM tank. Essentially what this means (talking about the 1199RS only now) is that the extended swing arm would need to be counter balanced by the Corse tank in order to replicate the desired WSBK characteristics. How about the V4? Have you looked into how the tank differ across the standard V4 and the WSBK version?

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The stock tank is actually pretty well designed to keep the Center if Gravity low and toward the center of the bike, most especially when you are not running a full tank of gas. The lower the fuel level becomes the more the fuel weight is balanced lower and more centered.

When tracking my Porsche and using race fuel versus E85 I only run with about an 2/5ths of a tank of fuel to keep weight down, I would expect to use the same strategy with a bike for 20 minute track sessions, which would get the fuel CG pretty close to where the fuel sits in the GP bikes.

On another note on handling versus stability.

I have ThysenKrupp wheels and Sicom carbon ceramic rotors, 520 lightweight sprockets abs chain, abd am running a 15/44 tooth final drive setup….that’s somewhere around 12 to 15 pounds of lost rotating mass….which in turn eliminated ALOT of gyroscopic forces…this made the bike so light that you can flick it effortlessly side to side….but the higher final drive made it wheelie more, and the lower gyroscopic forces took away a lot of the stability it had, which wasn’t great already when pulling hard off a sweeper (something I do all the time even out on public roads) I rarely lean the bike more than about 45 degrees out tooling around, but I frequently do hard accelerations from 80 to 160 mph coming off of lean angels like that, and get the same wheelie problem but with less experience than you handling it haha.

The point is, I dialed SOOO much handling in via the super lightweight rotating masses that I can give some of it up for better stability and still have more handling ability than I have riding ability.

To that end I put on the IMA Triple clamps that have eccentrics that allow you to shorten or increase the trail without changing the rake. I added about 4 mm of trail and that dramatically improved front end stability that in combination with the super lightweight rotating masses and lower gyroscopic forces also kept REALLY good turn in characteristics even with improved stability.

I think with the extended swingarm matched with the right spring rates/sag/compression/rebound settings I can increase stability in the rear end without giving up much handling at all, and get at least SOME help with the Wheelie issue from my final drive ratios. The key will be getting the spring rate right along with the other suspension settings.

In short, I’m not nearly as experienced as you, but from my little bit of personal experience it seems like if your willing to spend the money you can increase both stability AND handling by making these geometry changes combined with super lightweight rotating assemblies that reduce gyroscopic forces.

Steven31371 said:

Im not a big fan of heavy handed moderation on forums, but one Porsche forum I was in all the time had an excellent feature, where you could just block a particular member, and when you did their posts remained in the thread but were deleted from view of the blocker.

It’s as if the blocked person just…disappeared to the blocker lol

Really great feature hahaha


I have to admit that not knowing either of you I thought that Mick was being pretty harsh with you, but now I kinda get it…you have strong opinions based on imagined reality.

I suspect you’re a 20 year old kid whose testicals haven’t fully dropped yet enough to think rationally and your prefrontal cortex hasn’t developed enough to have rational well considered thoughts.

So with that, I’ll not be allocating any more brain cells to you lol

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There is an "ignore" function here as well. Just click on the username or avatar of the person whom you wish to ignore and you'll find it there.

So in summary:

• Currently 100% street bike
• Use case: Optimize motorcycle for silliness
• Stock bike’s stability and drive compromised by gearing change and increase in center of gravity (from decreasing weight from the wheels/rotors)
• +4 mm trail with IMA triple which increases wheelbase
• Adding an additional 35 mm to wheelbase for “wheelie control” with bling bling Pierobon extended swingarm
• Extending swingarm does not necessitate change in spring rate unless shock linkage is changed
• To keep semi-active, you’ve got to keep the complete system. (Also what rear shock are you going to upgrade to, RPS40???)
• Extending swingarm will increase ride height thereby increasing CoG
• By decreasing ride height at shock, this will affect swingarm angle which affects handling/turn-in
• No swingarm pivot adjustment (that I’m aware of on Foggy edition)
• Will necessitate extending a bunch of ancillary equipment

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. On paper, this setup will handle like a boat. Have fun with coming up with solutions for problems that you’re creating!

Good write up man yeah case of a 20 year old living at home with mom, no bike, no money and too much time on his hands cutting n pasting info from all the moto news sites on here. He's here to stay its the future of the board.


I have to admit that not knowing either of you I thought that Mick was being pretty harsh with you, but now I kinda get it…you have strong opinions based on imagined reality.

I suspect you’re a 20 year old kid whose testicals haven’t fully dropped yet enough to think rationally and your prefrontal cortex hasn’t developed enough to have rational well considered thoughts.

So with that, I’ll not be allocating any more brain cells to you lol
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