Extended Swing Arm Shock and Spring Rate

Ducati Forum

Help Support Ducati Forum:

I’m gunna put the Pierobon extended swingarm on my bike. It extends the Swingarm by about 35 mm. This will necessitate using a heavier spring rate on the rear shock.

The problem there is that I’m already using the heaviest spring that Ohlins makes for the stock shock that came on my bike, which is the Ohlins TTX36. Has the electronics package with the Evo 2 that I’d like to keep.

For those if you running an extended swingarm, what rear suspension setup are you using, and how much did you have to increase your spring rate in the rear?

Does anyone know an aftermarket spring supplier (not Ohlins) with the same spring length as the Ohlins spring for the Ohlins TTX36 but that has a higher spring rate than 115?

Is there a shock setup other than the factory installed Ohlins TTX36 that will allow the continued usage of the Dynamic Electronic Suspension? (Which I like our on the street)
Sorry for the poor quality I had to take a picture with my phone of the screen, I will post some more over next couple of days when I get a chance. This is just a basic comparison of different swingarm length vs rear wheel force
IMG_20211108_202627.jpg
 
Can you help me understand what’s happening here - why does the spring rate drop at ~15mm of travel?
I'm assuming that's static sag. Swingarm can move fast through static sag and then slows down once the spring gets into the preload?

Also, @Bruce Wayne is too nice of a guy running this scenario for you for free. This is the type of analysis that your suspension tuner should be able to offer if they're recommending going to an extended swingarm.
 
Last edited:
I will be interested to hear what you think of the GSXR on track VS your V4S.

I can’t ride the gixxer race bike hard on the roads or around the neighborhood because it’s in slicks. But I took it for a few spins.

Right off the bat even with pushing hard the bike feels more sorted and more comfortable than the V4S, so much so that I’m trying to set up the ergonomics on the Ducati to be more like the Track Gixxer. And the BRAKES on the gixxer are phenomenal, exactly how I like them to feel.

So in some ways, just from a few slightly spirited rides around the neighborhood I’m already chasing how that bike feels with the Ducati.

To be fair though, that gixxer is a Championship winning race bike set up and well sorted over YEARS by a team of people for a rider close to my size…whole different ball game….that thing has been road hard and put away wet, it looks like it’s held together with duct tape and bailing wire, but it’s just REALLY well sorted.


D87AE72C-7577-4BC5-A40B-EEC13D4557B3.jpegF5B9DBAD-6708-4437-B3C3-075B10A06915.jpeg5E12F3E7-3A24-4F05-BD96-9195CD8D7C14.jpeg5BBF31CC-66C0-4842-9E6A-EE0704D3CD22.jpeg
 
Have someone go through that bike, I assume you have all the documentation to when and what was done to that machine.
Before i started racing my Panigale i tracked a GSXR. I can tell you they are very comfortable. My first 3 street bikes were GSXR's. I had a 06 1000.
Enjoy them both. To be fair the Panigale will never be like the GSXR, as you will learn the more you ride them both. I am interested to know what you think of them once you get seat time on the track and some laps/track days under your belt.
 
I would like to learn more about structural engineers in Australia. I am interested in buying an apartment with this company. Please share your views.
 
Gixxers are friendly bikes, its in their DNA. The K5/K6 is a truly great bike and a good rider on a well set up one will blow the wheels off an average V4 rider in the twisties. Just some thoughts on the swingarm, the numbers are only relevant after the fact in the sense that if the bike does what you want and the feeling is there then you can refer to the numbers as a baseline.
 
Gixxers are friendly bikes, its in their DNA. The K5/K6 is a truly great bike and a good rider on a well set up one will blow the wheels off an average V4 rider in the twisties. Just some thoughts on the swingarm, the numbers are only relevant after the fact in the sense that if the bike does what you want and the feeling is there then you can refer to the numbers as a baseline.


Yeah I think I’m just going to try it out with the rear shock spring setup I have, then if needed pull the shock and get it re-valved with a heavier spring. I suspect the reason that Ohlins only sells up to a 115 spring is that it’s not valved to handle more than that.
 
A few cans of spray paint abs some number decals dressed her up a bit without putting too much into her BE4BA42C-6CAB-44FB-89FB-5A0AD890D5F1.jpeg7B908FC6-8029-42F9-B0A1-783C62DEE8FE.jpeg
 
The stock tank is actually pretty well designed to keep the Center if Gravity low and toward the center of the bike, most especially when you are not running a full tank of gas. The lower the fuel level becomes the more the fuel weight is balanced lower and more centered.

When tracking my Porsche and using race fuel versus E85 I only run with about an 2/5ths of a tank of fuel to keep weight down, I would expect to use the same strategy with a bike for 20 minute track sessions, which would get the fuel CG pretty close to where the fuel sits in the GP bikes.

On another note on handling versus stability.

I have ThysenKrupp wheels and Sicom carbon ceramic rotors, 520 lightweight sprockets abs chain, abd am running a 15/44 tooth final drive setup….that’s somewhere around 12 to 15 pounds of lost rotating mass….which in turn eliminated ALOT of gyroscopic forces…this made the bike so light that you can flick it effortlessly side to side….but the higher final drive made it wheelie more, and the lower gyroscopic forces took away a lot of the stability it had, which wasn’t great already when pulling hard off a sweeper (something I do all the time even out on public roads) I rarely lean the bike more than about 45 degrees out tooling around, but I frequently do hard accelerations from 80 to 160 mph coming off of lean angels like that, and get the same wheelie problem but with less experience than you handling it haha.

The point is, I dialed SOOO much handling in via the super lightweight rotating masses that I can give some of it up for better stability and still have more handling ability than I have riding ability.

To that end I put on the IMA Triple clamps that have eccentrics that allow you to shorten or increase the trail without changing the rake. I added about 4 mm of trail and that dramatically improved front end stability that in combination with the super lightweight rotating masses and lower gyroscopic forces also kept REALLY good turn in characteristics even with improved stability.

I think with the extended swingarm matched with the right spring rates/sag/compression/rebound settings I can increase stability in the rear end without giving up much handling at all, and get at least SOME help with the Wheelie issue from my final drive ratios. The key will be getting the spring rate right along with the other suspension settings.

In short, I’m not nearly as experienced as you, but from my little bit of personal experience it seems like if your willing to spend the money you can increase both stability AND handling by making these geometry changes combined with super lightweight rotating assemblies that reduce gyroscopic forces.

Just for clarification, 15/45 is a LOWER final drive
 
So did ya abort the extension or what?

Sorry… didn’t look thru all 14 pages : )

I think you have the right idea street or track. Cept I might want more than 35mm for sick street bike?
 
So did ya abort the extension or what?

Sorry… didn’t look thru all 14 pages : )

I think you have the right idea street or track. Cept I might want more than 35mm for sick street bike?


Not aborted, but takes about 2 months to get it from Pierobahn…so I have another 4 to 6 weeks or so I’m guessing
 
So did we get to the bottom of the spring rate question with the Pierobon extended arm?
Mine is being fitted this week..

View attachment 45219
View attachment 45218

I’m working with Ohlins directly and they are saying at my weight with that swingarm probably a 130 and a custom valves rear shock…they are communicating with Forsaking Motorsports to get the exact curve on the rear shock lower linear link to determine valving.

They are waffling between a 120 and 130 spring though….I weigh about 250 pounds in full riding gear.
 

Register CTA

Register on Ducati Forum! This sidebar will go away, and you will see fewer ads.

Recent Discussions

Back
Top