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FREE Suspension Setup advice from an expert
- Thread starter roadracerx
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@Knackers unless you are very hard on the brakes I would run the front a little higher. Most folks don't cause enough carcass flex to cause the front to raise more than a pound or two....hot pressure target should be 33-34 front and no more than 29 rear (PSI). When you get more than 29 at the rear on Pirellis they tend to get that "greasy" feeling. Since these are your first times back on track in some time it is best to get a feel for things and build confidence.
I have never run my fronts below 31 PSI in any scenario on any sports bike. On some tires the bike will feel completely weird when the pressure is that low and when the pressure is too low you can cause cold tear.
FWIW, when you said stock everything and first time on track in six years I assumed you had not changed your suspension from showroom. 90 KG, is that with all your gear or without? You also mentioned you adjusted rebound and compression....can you share where it was and where you went to front and rear please and if you adjusted sag front and rear to get proper sag?
All of this will matter more as you get more comfortable.
I have never run my fronts below 31 PSI in any scenario on any sports bike. On some tires the bike will feel completely weird when the pressure is that low and when the pressure is too low you can cause cold tear.
FWIW, when you said stock everything and first time on track in six years I assumed you had not changed your suspension from showroom. 90 KG, is that with all your gear or without? You also mentioned you adjusted rebound and compression....can you share where it was and where you went to front and rear please and if you adjusted sag front and rear to get proper sag?
All of this will matter more as you get more comfortable.
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@roadracerx @rac1ngsnak3 , I'm 90kg with gear, the showroom setting were out and each fork was different.
I returned them to the factory setting for road and adjusted it from there, doing rebound first my current settings, the manual does list settings for racing so I may set them for my next track day
Current settings are:
Front:
Ten - 4 out from fully closed
Com - 5 out from fully closed
Pre - 6 turns from fully open
Rear:
Rebound - 16 out
Com - 1.5 out from fully closed
Preload - 14mm
I lost my original notebook, so had to go recheck all my settings. My zip tie was at 10mm from bottom of the fork leg, I do tend to brake harder. My daughter helped measure SAG setting so probably not right. Next track day I'll get someone to assist if the suspension dudes aren't there.
I returned them to the factory setting for road and adjusted it from there, doing rebound first my current settings, the manual does list settings for racing so I may set them for my next track day
Current settings are:
Front:
Ten - 4 out from fully closed
Com - 5 out from fully closed
Pre - 6 turns from fully open
Rear:
Rebound - 16 out
Com - 1.5 out from fully closed
Preload - 14mm
I lost my original notebook, so had to go recheck all my settings. My zip tie was at 10mm from bottom of the fork leg, I do tend to brake harder. My daughter helped measure SAG setting so probably not right. Next track day I'll get someone to assist if the suspension dudes aren't there.
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I'm trying to absorb as much info as I can, so maybe someone can help me understand these patterns. Doesn't the unevenness of the rolled rubber indicate a suspension issue? And doesn't the rolled rubber on the back of the sipes (yellow in second pic) and smooth surface of the sipe's front area (blue in second pic) indicate rebound is too fast? Maybe I don't understand the normal wear patterns of these multi-compound tires, but I'm sure someone can explain the unevenness of these patterns.
Thanks
Thanks
No he does not, but the OP had access to him. Just saying. Had he stuck around, he wouldn’t be here asking us amateurs and the one professional who is donating his time.
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Guys, there is no wear issue with the tire, period. Yes there are some smoother spots but we are talking about a guy that is just getting back on track after a six year hiatus, let's all simmer down a bit 
As stated above that is a dual compound tire, also newer riders tend to over brake into the turn, wait until corner exit to hammer the gas once the bike is stood up which causes a lot of accelerated wear right about where those edge sipes end.
As stated above that is a dual compound tire, also newer riders tend to over brake into the turn, wait until corner exit to hammer the gas once the bike is stood up which causes a lot of accelerated wear right about where those edge sipes end.
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@Knackers let's do this right. Set your bike sag to 25-30 mm front and 10-15 mm rear; your rider sag to 40 mm front and 30 mm rear. I will measure a set of set of oem Showa forks and let you know where the bottom is then you can take a Sharpie and mark your fork accordingly and then use a fork travel indicator to see how close you are to the actual bottom of the stroke. I am pretty sure you are bottoming out your forks as you are at the top of the weight for stock springs.
Some of your settings that you shared need some explanation....also please list the stock settings in your manual for reference in your response.
Front:
Ten - 4 out from fully closed
Com - 5 out from fully closed
Pre - 6 turns from fully open <-- you probably need more but let's get that sag set properly.
Rear:
Rebound - 16 out
Com - 1.5 out from fully closed
Preload - 14mm <-- how did you measure this?
AFTER proper sag is set, what I like to do is set fork rebound. First remove all compression at both ends! I am looking for the fork to return from a firm push with the front brake on and return to the original position without bouncing more than once.
If the fork bounces like an old Cadillac with a hoping well slow the rebound down (turn clockwise) and do the opposite if it doesn't return to its original position. The fork can come up and then settle but you don't want it to not return all the way or be slow to return. I prefer to leave the "clickers" as open as possible .... none of this "I am a fast guy so I gotta turn it in" kinda stuff, ok? You would be surprised at the number of people that do this and wonder why the bike doesn't work anymore.
A good test to see if rebound is too open is the fork will pop up between gear shifts on track. After the fork rebound is set next move to the rear rebound and match the rate at which the front returns with a similar input into the shock. Developing this feeling takes time as you want to be able to push through the center of the bike to get it to compress the front and rear at the same time and ideally return at the same time. A second person standing to the side of the bike helps OR you can take two laser pointers and attach them to the bike pointing at the wall and observe this yourself - it works, ask me how I know? Once you have rear rebound set so that the front and rear of the bike are in balance you move to compression and I go first to the fork then repeat the same process for like rates, however, I like to think of rebound like it is a fact and compression is more of an opinion. Depending on your environment (street or track), pace, spring and preload, and surface conditions the compression settings will vary. I would start with oem settings and confirm if the bike first steers without fighting you on entry, next does the bike run wide on exit? If both of these aspects of the bike are good then your geometry is probably good but if you have changed gearing, tires, tire sizes, your chain isn't properly set to correct tension, etc, these can and do cause havoc especially when tuning remotely over the internet. Oh and relatively NEW tires set to proper inflation for the environment in which they are used helps a lot in getting a setup that works well.
Let me tell you a quick story....recently I had a customer who started tinkering with a bike I built him - he got faster and faster and started changing things and didn't tell me until he had a problem so, of course I am happy to help him so I tried to understand his new issue. He decided to change the rear shock spring up TWO rates because he saw another friend with a similar bike who was faster and he thought this would help. So I started from the beginning to decipher what he had done. He swore to me he had properly set sag but he only had 5 mm of bike sag from the rear shock and 30 mm of rider sag. I spent 3 hours on the phone trying to help this guy and asked him several times about exactly what he did. After all this time I had him send me a video of how he set the rear sag....EXACTLY how he took measurements.....well he never actually suspended the rear of the bike on the peg stands to take the first measurement so everything was off. DETAILs matter. When I set sag I take FIVE measurements from each end and average them to account for fork seal stiction and linkage stiction AFTER I lubricate the linkage and set the correct torque for the shock, linkage and triple clamps.
None of this stuff is rocket science but it does take time and attention to detail to do properly.
Maybe I will do a video on how I feel is proper way to set sag ...
Some of your settings that you shared need some explanation....also please list the stock settings in your manual for reference in your response.
Front:
Ten - 4 out from fully closed
Com - 5 out from fully closed
Pre - 6 turns from fully open <-- you probably need more but let's get that sag set properly.
Rear:
Rebound - 16 out
Com - 1.5 out from fully closed
Preload - 14mm <-- how did you measure this?
AFTER proper sag is set, what I like to do is set fork rebound. First remove all compression at both ends! I am looking for the fork to return from a firm push with the front brake on and return to the original position without bouncing more than once.
If the fork bounces like an old Cadillac with a hoping well slow the rebound down (turn clockwise) and do the opposite if it doesn't return to its original position. The fork can come up and then settle but you don't want it to not return all the way or be slow to return. I prefer to leave the "clickers" as open as possible .... none of this "I am a fast guy so I gotta turn it in" kinda stuff, ok? You would be surprised at the number of people that do this and wonder why the bike doesn't work anymore.
A good test to see if rebound is too open is the fork will pop up between gear shifts on track. After the fork rebound is set next move to the rear rebound and match the rate at which the front returns with a similar input into the shock. Developing this feeling takes time as you want to be able to push through the center of the bike to get it to compress the front and rear at the same time and ideally return at the same time. A second person standing to the side of the bike helps OR you can take two laser pointers and attach them to the bike pointing at the wall and observe this yourself - it works, ask me how I know?
Once you have rear rebound set so that the front and rear of the bike are in balance you move to compression and I go first to the fork then repeat the same process for like rates, however, I like to think of rebound like it is a fact and compression is more of an opinion. Depending on your environment (street or track), pace, spring and preload, and surface conditions the compression settings will vary. I would start with oem settings and confirm if the bike first steers without fighting you on entry, next does the bike run wide on exit? If both of these aspects of the bike are good then your geometry is probably good but if you have changed gearing, tires, tire sizes, your chain isn't properly set to correct tension, etc, these can and do cause havoc especially when tuning remotely over the internet. Oh and relatively NEW tires set to proper inflation for the environment in which they are used helps a lot in getting a setup that works well.Let me tell you a quick story....recently I had a customer who started tinkering with a bike I built him - he got faster and faster and started changing things and didn't tell me until he had a problem so, of course I am happy to help him so I tried to understand his new issue. He decided to change the rear shock spring up TWO rates because he saw another friend with a similar bike who was faster and he thought this would help. So I started from the beginning to decipher what he had done. He swore to me he had properly set sag but he only had 5 mm of bike sag from the rear shock and 30 mm of rider sag. I spent 3 hours on the phone trying to help this guy and asked him several times about exactly what he did. After all this time I had him send me a video of how he set the rear sag....EXACTLY how he took measurements.....well he never actually suspended the rear of the bike on the peg stands to take the first measurement so everything was off. DETAILs matter. When I set sag I take FIVE measurements from each end and average them to account for fork seal stiction and linkage stiction AFTER I lubricate the linkage and set the correct torque for the shock, linkage and triple clamps.
None of this stuff is rocket science but it does take time and attention to detail to do properly.
Maybe I will do a video on how I feel is proper way to set sag ...
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Literally every technical post on this form needs this.
I've even noticed how you lift the rear of the bike when using a Slacker can make a difference. If you lift by the subframe you are wrong. You have to lift by using the rearsets and using the kickstand for leverage.
In for that sag video.
The difference in how the bike feels is night and day when you have the sag right, you begin to hear what the bike is saying. Agree wth Rx that less is more when it come to suspension settings. Also after the sag is set then only adjust one thing at a time, take it for a spin and review. Keep a detailed notebook or spreadsheet to track changes.
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@Knackers let's do this right. Set your bike sag to 25-30 mm front and 10-15 mm rear; your rider sag to 40 mm front and 30 mm rear. I will measure a set of set of oem Showa forks and let you know where the bottom is then you can take a Sharpie and mark your fork accordingly and then use a fork travel indicator to see how close you are to the actual bottom of the stroke. I am pretty sure you are bottoming out your forks as you are at the top of the weight for stock springs.
Some of your settings that you shared need some explanation....also please list the stock settings in your manual for reference in your response.
Front:
Ten - 4 out from fully closed
Com - 5 out from fully closed
Pre - 6 turns from fully open <-- you probably need more but let's get that sag set properly.
Rear:
Rebound - 16 out
Com - 1.5 out from fully closed
Preload - 14mm <-- how did you measure this? I measured it from the exposed threads to the locking ring nut
AFTER proper sag is set, what I like to do is set fork rebound. First remove all compression at both ends! I am looking for the fork to return from a firm push with the front brake on and return to the original position without bouncing more than once.
If the fork bounces like an old Cadillac with a hoping well slow the rebound down (turn clockwise) and do the opposite if it doesn't return to its original position. The fork can come up and then settle but you don't want it to not return all the way or be slow to return. I prefer to leave the "clickers" as open as possible .... none of this "I am a fast guy so I gotta turn it in" kinda stuff, ok? You would be surprised at the number of people that do this and wonder why the bike doesn't work anymore.
A good test to see if rebound is too open is the fork will pop up between gear shifts on track. After the fork rebound is set next move to the rear rebound and match the rate at which the front returns with a similar input into the shock. Developing this feeling takes time as you want to be able to push through the center of the bike to get it to compress the front and rear at the same time and ideally return at the same time. A second person standing to the side of the bike helps OR you can take two laser pointers and attach them to the bike pointing at the wall and observe this yourself - it works, ask me how I know?
Let me tell you a quick story....recently I had a customer who started tinkering with a bike I built him - he got faster and faster and started changing things and didn't tell me until he had a problem so, of course I am happy to help him so I tried to understand his new issue. He decided to change the rear shock spring up TWO rates because he saw another friend with a similar bike who was faster and he thought this would help. So I started from the beginning to decipher what he had done. He swore to me he had properly set sag but he only had 5 mm of bike sag from the rear shock and 30 mm of rider sag. I spent 3 hours on the phone trying to help this guy and asked him several times about exactly what he did. After all this time I had him send me a video of how he set the rear sag....EXACTLY how he took measurements.....well he never actually suspended the rear of the bike on the peg stands to take the first measurement so everything was off. DETAILs matter. When I set sag I take FIVE measurements from each end and average them to account for fork seal stiction and linkage stiction AFTER I lubricate the linkage and set the correct torque for the shock, linkage and triple clamps.
None of this stuff is rocket science but it does take time and attention to detail to do properly.
Maybe I will do a video on how I feel is proper way to set sag ...
@roadracerx
Preload - 14mm <-- how did you measure this? I measured it from the rear of the shock exposed threads to the locking ring nut
I'll go back to the stock setting until I confirm SAG and try the race setting on the next track day with the tyre pressures you recommended.
Definitely giving the laser pointer trick a go.
I did sign up for DM website to understand a bit better, helpful and very similar to what you have described above.
Factory settings are attached.
Appreciate all your advice even though my reply is short
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I’m pretty sure the useable travel on Showas is 117 mm (out of 120 mm total). So 3 mm from complete bottom. That’s what we got when we disassembled my forks to put in carts
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The instructions you posted is how you set initial sag with the shock off of the bike. You measure the length of the uninstalled spring, that is spring off of the shock. Then, you install the spring on the shock and use the collars to make the spring length 14mm shorter than the first measurement.
Example, my Ohlins 21040-26/85 spring is 158mm off of the shock. So you'd want it to measure 144mm on the shock. I don't suggest using my 158mm since your spring could measure different.
DM has video about measuring rear static sag with the shock on the bike. If you don't have a sag tool, like a Slacker v4, you'll need someone to help. I like to use a bit of painters tape to give whoever is helping an easy reference for the measurement. Also, when lifting use the rearsets as there seems to be flex in the subframe and its plastic parts. This will throw off your measurement.
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I’m pretty sure Ohlins (and the Sachs) uses 1.0 thread pitch in all fittings so each complete turn is 1 mm. So you don’t even have to take the shock out. Just unweight the shock using a scissor Jack on the rear tire and subframe. Remember, preload doesn’t add spring tension or shock length.
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Problem being you don't know what your spring measures uncompressed when its on the bike. Not that it matters too much since the method people use to set static and rider sag doesn't use the value from the manual, its just a reference. Using that value will likely have 0mm of static sag anyway and be way too stiff.
If you are serious about setting sag, or you have to do it yourself, buy a slacker. I have one and check the sag twice a season. With the slacker all you need to do is tilt the bike on the stand till the wheel is off the ground and reset the tool. Lower the bike and now you have the bike sag in MM. Sit on bike, with someone holding you up, now you have rider sag. With the tool it’s kinda hard to mess up. No trying to explain to your wife or 12YO how to measure. Lol
If you are serious about setting or adjusting your sag, it really helps to invest.
When I bought my 1299 it was very unstable at speed and drove into corners way too fast.
Front Sag 50MM
Rear Sag 22MM
Wow. I re-adjusted to 35-30, and that was actually too stiff for my roads and moved 40-35. I gained 15 pounds and was at 43 in the front, nope, moved it back to 40.
Flipped the dog bone to progressive and SAG was out again, I readjusted. Bike was softer but eventually I moved it back to fixed. Adjusted SAG again.
Without a slacker I am not making these adjustments.
If you are serious about setting or adjusting your sag, it really helps to invest.
When I bought my 1299 it was very unstable at speed and drove into corners way too fast.
Front Sag 50MM
Rear Sag 22MM
Wow. I re-adjusted to 35-30, and that was actually too stiff for my roads and moved 40-35. I gained 15 pounds and was at 43 in the front, nope, moved it back to 40.
Flipped the dog bone to progressive and SAG was out again, I readjusted. Bike was softer but eventually I moved it back to fixed. Adjusted SAG again.
Without a slacker I am not making these adjustments.
Last edited:
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The dot on my fork is at 120 mm from fully extended. My zip ends up where you see it or just a bit lower (barely touching the black dot) when bottoming out. I would agree that it is just a bit short of 120 mm, although my dot may not be exactly 120 mm.
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