Hi, I could use a little advice in bike selection

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Joined
May 31, 2021
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37
Location
Thailand
Hi, I recently posted about my V4 shopping and was encouraged to get one, but after someone mentioned to me that it is not as nimble as the 959, I grew concerned. I currently ride a Triumph Street Triple 675r and an Yamaha MT-10, one being great at small corners and the other being a ... fight lol. I love them both, but it's time to have a full fairing sport bike in my life again. I'm tired of wind at high speed.

I ride very challenging mountain roads, and I am not interested in track riding. We have many corners (hundreds, thousands sometimes, literally, as I'm up in North Thailand in the foothills of the Himalayas), many of them small and tight, but also many medium to high speed corners too. The roads are off camber, decreasing radius, and changing in incline and decline, and sometimes all at once. It's incredibly challenging but also incredibly rewarding.

My 675 is fun of course, it's nice and raw, good feeling through to the road, I can feel when the back wheel is spinning, the throttle cable is.. well... a cable and not electronic, so it's a very FUN and raw bike; very good feel through for the rider, but the wind gets to be unbearable for my long torso. My MT-10 doesn't have that same great feel through at all, but the electronic aids help with the wheel spin and I can fight hard and corner on it to its limit in tighter corners if I feel like it, but it's a workout, and then I can hit the high speed corners and straights pretty hard with confidence as it does a good job keeping the wheel down, whose dream is to be forever be up soaring to the sky. It's also fun in its own way, but again, my long torso and that wind are a killer, and decent looking windscreen aren't helping. (I don't like the big touring screens on the naked sport bikes. I think they are hideous).

So, back to what I said at first. I was going to buy a V4/V4S, but a friend got a 959 and is LOVING it, and said it feels more nimble than his triumph 765, which was surprising to me. I asked a local Ducati expert here and he said that the 959 IS going to be more nimble and better for small corners than the V4 because of the lower center of gravity on the 959, but that the V4 would feel better than my MT-10. (but just how much better I don't know). So, while that sounds like a good compromise, I'm not sure which bike is going to be closer to the 675 in those small corners, which we have sooo many of; 959, 1199, 1299, V4? Perhaps the V4 is not as nimble as the 675 or 959, but is still pretty close and Ill have a ton of fun? Or perhaps it's just not suited for that kind of riding and one of the other models is more suited to my riding? I'm anxious to buy something, but I want to make sure I get the right bike, and my impulsiveness may lead me to the wrong bike. I do want a Panigale because I've never had one and love the style, and since I want a sport bike with torque they seem to fit the bill.

So, the moral of all this story, and the TLDR question is, if I want a Panigale, the most nimble, but still torquey and fast, not super old, and with the most "fun factor" for tight mountain roads, which model is the best fit?

Thank you! :)
 
“…Panigale, the most nimble, but still torquey and fast, not super old, and with the most "fun factor" for tight mountain roads, which model is the best fit?”

Great choice thx!

There is nothing like passing a guy like you, full leathers n dragging knee, on $1500 100 mph 1990 enduro : )



37B84655-58A2-44D0-9E57-A3458B9C2C6C.jpeg
 
“…Panigale, the most nimble, but still torquey and fast, not super old, and with the most "fun factor" for tight mountain roads, which model is the best fit?”

Great choice thx!

There is nothing like passing a guy like you, full leathers n dragging knee, on $1500 100 mph 1990 enduro : )



View attachment 37822

I'm not looking to be faster than anyone, im looking for a sport bike for very intense mountains to have fun. I'm not out to impress. I enjoy sport bikes. I have bored and stroked CRF too, and it's fun in it's own way, but we do long fast trips and the sport bike is more appropriate for our riding style.
 
If you mean my CRF, its a CRF250L, because that's all we can get here. It's bored 2mm over with a forged piston, and I don't know the specs of the the stroke but its using a CB300 crankshaft, camshaft, and ecu. It's not fast haha. It will do 150kph on stock gearing, but it doesn't really like it. I'm going to go back to more teeth on the rear and cut down that top speed to get some better acceleration down low.
 
You should test ride them. I think both V2 or V4 would be crazy fun where you live, but they are different. There will be some learning and some evolving of your style most likely. I love learning new bikes though.
I had an 848 then 1198 then V4S in tight mountain roads. The V4S is by far the easiest to ride overall. The 848 easiest in really tight roads, I geared it down with a 14T in front and was always in 2nd gear in super tight uphill hairpins - just perfect. The 1198 was kind of a beast in tight stuff because you can make much bigger mistakes with that kind of torque going that slow. The V4S is a whole different animal. I'm 6'2" and also have a long torso.
The aero package on the V4S is a whole new generation of aerodynamics. I went past 160mph in a tuck, it's astonishingly quiet. Surreal. The 848 in that kind of wind was like getting a beating. I couldn't get all the way behind the windscreen in the 848 cockpit. My helmet was always out a bit so the wind would get under me, especially over a bump. On the V4S in a super tight tuck it's totally comfortable for me. Elbows on knees, head totally out of the wind. It's crazy how good it is. The wind pushes me down instead of sucking me out, so it's easy to stay down. Ask someone about the 959 I haven't ridden it - cockpit size? Not sure it's the same as the V4.
V4S super tight twisties: It's different. It's taking me a little while to get it dialed in. I don't ever feel the bike like it's "big" it's lighter than the 848! It just has a different feel. The 848 was so sensitive, you wink and you've changed lanes. Skinnier tires. That is one of the biggest differences. The V4S I'm learning to use my legs a lot more to bend it into curves. It's more flowing and more gentle on the power if you want, but you can dial all that in with electronics. When you hit the power it's got more than you can know what to do with. I don't think any of the Ducs will be "the same" feel as your Triumph.
You should test ride them.
 
Riding them all would of course be best, but its pretty challenging. A friend offered me a ride on his 959 so that will help. I started to think though, if the 959 is basically a superior 675 (more or less), maybe I don't want both. Maybe the V4S is so different, and that is ok. Your comments on your height and the aerodynamics resonate with me. The thought of that wind comfort is sooo appealing.

I haven't ridden the 1198, but I would imagine id be used to the the torque from riding the MT-10 which has a rather rollercoaster torque curve and when the throttle is in the max sensitivity mode mistakes are easily made. The torque curve is not so smooth and I often find the wheel coming up at unexpected times, like 5000rpm, then again at 7000, then again at 9000 lol, then switch gears and repeat lol.

So maybe I should not chase the triumph feel, but chase something new and different, since I'll still have the triumph, and MT-10.
 
Whatever you do get the model with lightweight wheels or budget for them. Some here disagree but IMHO the v4 is nimbler than the 1299 which is a probably more to do with a smooth power delivery with lower torque, and the 1299 being more of a barge compared to the 959 but the principle is the same. At this point you are making a decision with your head when you need to engage your balls or other useful body parts other than brain. On a really tight road then a lightweight bike (600?) is going to smash it out of the park but i would pick a V4s will outperform a base 959 on the twisties all other things being equal.
 
I found it interesting that the V2 has more power and more torque than the V4 until around 10,000 RPMs. That is one reason I bought a V2 for the street/light track days. Only you can decide which is right for you though.

(Thick green line is V2, blue is V4. V2 slip-on and V4 full system)
v4 and v2 dyno overlay -slipon v2 - full sys v4-image2.PNG

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Whatever you do get the model with lightweight wheels or budget for them. Some here disagree but IMHO the v4 is nimbler than the 1299 which is a probably more to do with a smooth power delivery with lower torque, and the 1299 being more of a barge compared to the 959 but the principle is the same. At this point you are making a decision with your head when you need to engage your balls or other useful body parts other than brain. On a really tight road then a lightweight bike (600?) is going to smash it out of the park but i would pick a V4s will outperform a base 959 on the twisties all other things being equal.

I completely agree about the wheel weight. Id be surprised if a V4s could outperform a 959 in the twisties, but maybe all the electronic aids make that happen, although I'd think the 959 would be more fun. I'm just guessing that riding a 959 feels like you are right "with" the bike but a V4S may feel like you're riding "on" the bike.

I found it interesting that the V2 has more power and more torque than the V4 until around 10,000 RPMs. That is one reason I bought a V2 for the street/light track days. Only you can decide which is right for you though.

(Thick green line is V2, blue is V4. V2 slip-on and V4 full system)


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If I could get a V2 I'd run and get one now, but the dealer is 5 hours away and I have to bring it back there at 1000km for the oil change and for all subsequent oil changes or I lose my warranty.
 
If I could get a V2 I'd run and get one now, but the dealer is 5 hours away and I have to bring it back there at 1000km for the oil change and for all subsequent oil changes or I lose my warranty.

Man, that blows. Are you sure that's the way it works over there? In the states, there are laws that protect the consumer from situations like that. A guy can do any service from oil changes to desmo service in his garage and it does not void the warranty as long as he can provide vague proof that he followed proper procedure (like showing he has a service manual). I'm surprised laws like that don't exist virtually everywhere.
 
The V2 is cool, but I can only buy it new and there is no warranty service anywhere close to where I live, and I will lose the warranty if I change the oil without transporting the bike in my truck a very long way (an overnight stay).
Wait a second. Ducati voids the warranty if you dont get your oil changes done at a Ducati dealership or service center? I never heard of that. Unless its something new. When I bought my 1299 new I only did the first service with them. And then I did my own oil changes. When it came to some warranty issues with the bike everything was covered.
 
Man, that blows. Are you sure that's the way it works over there? In the states, there are laws that protect the consumer from situations like that. A guy can do any service from oil changes to desmo service in his garage and it does not void the warranty as long as he can provide vague proof that he followed proper procedure (like showing he has a service manual). I'm surprised laws like that don't exist virtually everywhere.

Yeah, I'm from the US, im not Thai, but here in Thailand they don't have the laws about being able to do routine service anywhere. I've confirmed many times with the dealer that If I don't bring it back for them for the 1000km service, or for any oil change (I suppose I could try to get the filter and cover up my shorter interval oil changes) that I will 100% lose the warranty. I just bought the MT-10 recently and have the same issue, but luckily Yamaha is all over, BUT they charge an insane amount for the oil change. So with them, I'll buy the filter at the service department and change the oil at 5000km on my own, and then come back to them for the 10,000km service.
 
Wait a second. Ducati voids the warranty if you dont get your oil changes done at a Ducati dealership or service center? I never heard of that. Unless its something new. When I bought my 1299 new I only did the first service with them. And then I did my own oil changes. When it came to some warranty issues with the bike everything was covered.

Different country, different laws ;)
 
I'm not looking to be faster than anyone, im looking for a sport bike for very intense mountains to have fun. I'm not out to impress. I enjoy sport bikes. I have bored and stroked CRF too, and it's fun in it's own way, but we do long fast trips and the sport bike is more appropriate for our riding style.
If youre not looking to be the fastest. But have a lot of fun. Go for the V2 and do some performance upgrades like the suspension and clutch which would make the bike handle even better. An EVR CTS wet slipper clutch alone drops 4lbs and if you google this clutch read about it. Replace some plastic parts with carbon fiber parts to lower the weight more. You buy a Vandemon undertail titanium exhaust which weights 9.8lbs. If you really want to go nuts get forged aluminum, forged magnesium or carbon wheels to lower the weight even more and reduces unsprung weight . That lower wheel weight will help reduce the gyroscopic effect made by the wheels and will make the bike handle better. Less weight overall will improve acceleration, put less stress on your suspension, helps stop the bike quicker. And other benefits as well. Or keep the bike as is and do some modifications that you think will make the bike look good and just enjoy the bike. And ride the hell out of it .
 
V2 option (I want it) is sadly not an option. Dealer is 5-6 hours away and in this country warranty service, including even an oil change, must be done yet the dealer for 2 years or you lost your warranty. I'm in a big city, but for some reason the Ducati dealer is in a smaller city in an area where less people would buy the bikes. I dont get it...
 
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