How much better is the 20\21 V 18\19

Did a little searching but curious to those that have ridden both old & newer frames on the track. How much better is the new frame? My local shop has a SP that just became available and I am trying to figure out if it’s worth the upgrade.

I have the 1299 and will either be buying a V4 or Aprilia RSV4. Regarding the SP at first I was skeptical and didnt know if it was worth buying a V4SP over a V4S. Im a dealer for pretty much anything you would need for a bike. And I did a cost comparison between getting a V4S and a V4SP. By the time you modify a V4S to have the same parts as the V4SP it will cost you more. I also took into consideration a paint job. Although you can get a sick paint job from Motoxpricambi Italy for a more than half the price of a paint job here in the US and they send you every plastic part that comes on your stock bike. This way you have your stock plastics. And best of all they fit perfectly. Mine cost me $1380 shipped For a V4 it would be $2300 shipped.

But back to your original question. I rode the 2019 which is just like the 2018. When I rode it I was like wow this bike feels so much different than my 1299. When the 2020 came out one of my other buddies bought one. He let me ride it. The bike felt more refined than the the 2018-19 V4 models. It handled sharper and felt more refined. But only you can decide whether its worth upgrading to the 2021. They do feel different. But I will be honest. I dont think the average rider will feel the difference between the 2018-19 and the 2020-21 models. Especially the rider who doesnt track his bike. In my opinion and I may be wrong but those guys dont even set their suspension up properly. If your are even 20% close to guys like @Mick1976 and how he sets his bikes up and others on this forum (Sorry if I didnt write your names guys. Its just Mick popped up into my head first) then maybe the upgrade is worth it for you. I myself have lots of performance upgrades on my 1299 and love how it handles on the track. But Im also the guy that wouldnt buy an S model because I get dealer pricing on parts. By the time I upgrade a base 1299 or a base V4 it will cost me less than if I bought an S model and will be a better handling bike. For example the Ohlins that come with an S model arent as good as the Ohlins that I put on my base because Ducati tells Ohlins to make the interior parts a little thinner , a little less durable to save money but charge customers premium pricing. Thats just my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt. Other forum members may disagree with me. Im saying I am right or they are right.

But with a few upgrades on your current bike you can have a bike that handles as well as a 2020-21 model. I just think most guys dont know that these type of parts are out there. And the way marketing is and the way people brag about the newest models, guys think they need those newest models to have the best. Think about it like this. You can have a full carbon fiber body from Ilmberger, upgraded rearsets, IMA special parts adjustable triple trees, IMA special parts adjustable clipons , EVR CTS wet slipper clutch, 30mm clutch slave, adjustable levers, change your rear drive train to a different rear tooth count and have a sprocket holder and sprocket to make your rear sprocket easy to swap, add an oversuspension , Brembo Tdrive brake rotors, and different brake master cylinder. Those changes alone will make the bike handle better than the 2020-21 model making it lighter, better braking, superior clutch, adjustable triple triple trees to 7 different positions which will make the bike handle totally different and they can be adjusted to whatever track you go to or whatever riding conditions you are riding in. Those changes alone will cost you less than taking a huge hit on your bike in a trade in as well as starting all over to pay for a new bike. I bet you would be so surprised to know what the total would be on those upgrades. @Mick1976 do you agree with me?

So good write up man yeah agree on everything so to be short and straight to the point most guys that buy these bikes typically don't mod them or build them from ground up. The typical guy buys a S model cause he thinks he is getting great upgrades for the money but reality is the S models are the worst to buy. The Ohlins stuff that is supplied on them bikes are bottom of the barrel crap that is no better then the base parts. Also with upgrading the bike really comes down to what they are going to use the bike for? The serious track guy that has the money to spend on high end parts always first step is better suspension and brake components. The rest the off the shelf race parts can be an advantage but not needed but if the money is there to be spent on it all and the skill level is there to install it as well set it all up then why not.

Mick1976 said:

So good write up man yeah agree on everything so to be short and straight to the point most guys that buy these bikes typically don't mod them or build them from ground up. The typical guy buys a S model cause he thinks he is getting great upgrades for the money but reality is the S models are the worst to buy. The Ohlins stuff that is supplied on them bikes are bottom of the barrel crap that is no better then the base parts. Also with upgrading the bike really comes down to what they are going to use the bike for? The serious track guy that has the money to spend on high end parts always first step is better suspension and brake components. The rest the off the shelf race parts can be an advantage but not needed but if the money is there to be spent on it all and the skill level is there to install it as well set it all up then why not.

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I compare the S model bikes to the Harley CVO models. All the upgrades on the CVO models are just off the shelf harley parts that anyone can buy from the store. The only real upgrade is the motor. And even then youre only getting a 117 instead of a 114. But there is no head work and the cam is a mild upgrade. When I buy harleys I never buy CVO models. I buy the non CVO models and then hook them up in such a way that I cant even explain how much better the bike is. Ive done that to my Street Glide and fat boy low that i sold.

For example my 2011 Harley Dyna Super Glide custom. I built the motor to a 107 in 2013 and put PM wheels, PM pulley and Pm rotors, exhaust, bars, and cables on it. In 2014 I installed racetech rear shocks and racetech gold emulators and springs in the front forks. In 2016 i changed the bars again and changed the air filter. In 2019 I bent my 21 performance machine front wheel which I was happy about. And went back to a 19 inch wheel which was a performance machine. Then May 2020 I sold my front end which also powder coated black along with my axial brake caliper and replaced the front end with the ODC Monza 2.0 all black inverted front end. I bought a dual brake disc hub for the front wheel and installed a GP stabilzer on the top tree. And installed Brembo .484 dual radial front brake calipers and sold my rear shocks to install 14.2 inch ODC Monza 2.0 rear piggy back shocks. Sold my Hard case performance risers and bar and installed the krause risers (here is a link with a video as to why these risers are superior to every other set of risers Kraus Isolated Risers). I also installed front and rear custom cycle engineering motor mounts. The Dyna's swing arm is notorious to sway side to side. The CCM rear motor mount prevents that. Then jan 2021 I ordered a S&S 124 gloss black twin cam motor. But since I ordered a motor with 130hp and 130ft lbs of torque and it will actually probably reach between 140-147hp and 145-150ft lb of torque after tuning it and some other things I was going to get. I wanted to make sure the bike was bullet proof. So these are the parts I ordered and doing a belt to chain conversion lol

1) Evolution Industries clutch basket assembly with 49T in the rear
2) Aim lock up clutch
3) Darkhorse front motor compensator
4) Baker Grudge transmission (reverse shift but neutral is all the way up top)
5) Horsepower Inc 58-62mm polished and ported throttle body
6) Trask high flow air filter
7) 6.2 injectors
8) Supersprox stealth 52T rear sprocket
9) PBI front sprocket
10) EK 3D 530 chain
11) chain guards
12) All new sensors (total 5)
13) Sawicki high flow big inch stainless exhaust with black end cap
14) Big Bear Performance dual gauge pods to mount on my risers
15) 4 inch speedo and tach to mount into the big bear performance gauge pods
16) Guerilla cables which split to plug into the speedo and tach but the main part plugs into where the original stock 5 inch speedo was on the tank
17) Guerilla block off plate to cover the hole where the 5 inch speedo was
18) Brembo 19RCS Corsa Corta front brake master cylinder
19) Brembo cable clutch perch
20) AEM reservoir to fit the Corsa Corta
21) Compufire 1.6kw starter
22) Will be ordering Lyndal front and rear brake rotors.
23) Thundermax tuner that tune the motor at different elevations, temperatures, humidity. And will tune itself if any changes are made to the motor , exhaust, throttle body or new air filter.

No point in buying a new Harley. But thank god Im a dealer. Plus I sold my motor, exhaust and all the most of the parts I replaced. So it wasnt as bad as i thought it would be.

@cycler @Mick1976 Thank you for the feedback. At this time I have a Speciale that came with all of the goodies. I have only done some surface mods (R bodywork and 520 quick change). The funny thing is like each of you mentioned in the past I had always purchased the standard model (1098, RSV4, R1) and immediately replaced suspension with Ohlins (Used David with FastBike Industries).

This time I let them talk me into the Speciale as it was looking like the only way I would get a full exhaust in California. The bike does well on the track and is fun to ride for an old man. I will likely call Cycler tomorrow or Tuesday to get some ideas. I am not sure I want to change the geometry but would like maybe to make it lighter.

I am still thinking about the swap to the SP. I like the sound of the stock exhaust and the parts (carbon wheels, dry clutch, and upgraded master). Like mentioned I also like the color scheme but could easily replicate that with carbon bodywork and a little paint.

Desmolvr said:

@cycler @Mick1976 Thank you for the feedback. At this time I have a Speciale that came with all of the goodies. I have only done some surface mods (R bodywork and 520 quick change). The funny thing is like each of you mentioned in the past I had always purchased the standard model (1098, RSV4, R1) and immediately replaced suspension with Ohlins (Used David with FastBike Industries).

This time I let them talk me into the Speciale as it was looking like the only way I would get a full exhaust in California. The bike does well on the track and is fun to ride for an old man. I will likely call Cycler tomorrow or Tuesday to get some ideas. I am not sure I want to change the geometry but would like maybe to make it lighter.

I am still thinking about the swap to the SP. I like the sound of the stock exhaust and the parts (carbon wheels, dry clutch, and upgraded master). Like mentioned I also like the color scheme but could easily replicate that with carbon bodywork and a little paint.

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I have a customer who bought the V4SP. He should be getting it soon. But he loves carbon. So I priced out every part in carbon by Ilmberger for him. Then I contacted Race track Fairing Moto XP: Race Fairings, Motorcycle bodywork, Aprilia, BMW, Ducati, MV Agusta, Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha, Triumph and asked asked them how much they would charge to paint the carbon parts to match the exact same way that the black V4SP looked like. They said well we have to stuff the carbon and remove the matte and gloss clear coats. Then prep it. And that is kind of expensive. So how does 1795 euros sound plus $120 shipping to your customer. Now here is the thing. I order 5 or more Ilmberger parts (it doesnt matter which ones I order as long as its 5 or more parts) I get an extra 10% off on all carbon except for Ducati, Aprilia or MV Agusta. Now if I order 10 pieces of Ducati , Aprilia or MV Agusta then instead of an extra 5% off I get 10% off. Ilmberger ships to me for free . Then i have to ship to my customers. Its a weird reason why an no point to write it because all you will say is why. The problem is when someone order a lot of stuff or say just a BMW S1000RR belly pan. The freaken box is 46 inches tall and between 80 inches all the way around or 88 inches all the way around. Which means the total measurement is somewhere between 126 inches to 134 inches. Even if I cut the top of the box down to 41 inches its still a minimum of 121 inches. And anything 120 inches or bigger is considered cargo. So shipping UPS, FedEx, USPS or DHL costs between $325 to $375 anywhere in the US. Meanwhile Ilmberger ships it to me for free. But if 10 or more pieces are ordered for one customer sometimes they make an exception. Otherwise I signed up or Delta cargo and it costs $125 to ship a box that size anywhere in the US and Delta will deliver it. If I drop if off on a Monday the customer gets its Tuesday. For $92 the customer has to pick it up from the airport. But if I drop it off on a Friday, and since Delta cargo is closed on weekends the customer would get it Monday.

Anyway back to motoxpricambi and their paint job. In addition to the 1795 euros they charge $47 to do a computer rendering if a paint job isnt shown on their website. You can google custom paint jobs if you want. I found 3 custom paint jobs I liked on the internet for my 1299. And paid them $141 for different computer paint renderings. Then paid them $1380 for brand new painted plastics (every single piece of plastic that came with my 1299 came with that paint job even the cam covers) but I didnt use all the plastics because I have a lot of carbon fiber. 1795 euros isnt in my opinion to prep, sand , paint and clear coat carbon fiber. Now when I say paint job , yes some of the parts are actually painted and some of the parts are vinyl wrapped then clear coated.. But 1795 euros which is $2189 plus $120 shipping is a hell of a lot better than the quotes he got here in the US which were between $4200-$4800. And that was due to prepping the carbon fiber. And I gave him 25% off on the Ilmberger carbon fiber parts because he bought so much. The 2021 V4SP retails for $37,000.00. The base model retails for $22,300.00 and if youre like me you can negotiate the price of the bike. I negotiated a base V4 for a friend down $1700 and a V4S down $1600. But that was last June 2020 and bikes needed to get moved. Last month I helped a friend get $1200 off on a Ducati and $1275 off on a BMW S1000RR. In my opinion youre better off getting the base V4. Order all carbon fiber pieces and get them painted at motoxpricambi. Get whatever rearsets you want instead of the Rizoma ones that come with the V4SP which are an exact copy of CNC Racing . Buy whatever carbon wheels you want (Im a BST and Rotobox dealer. Well actually Brocks performance is the importer for BST wheels and Im a Brocks Performance dealer. But I am a direct Rotobox dealer and Im a Bellissimoto dealer for whatever parts they are the direct importers for. They just began importing Thyssenkrupp carbon wheels and they are hot Shop Motorcycle - thyssenkrupp Carbon Components ) Buy the Ohlins front forks with the Nix 30mm cartridges or maybe but i could check buy the ohlins front forks with the FKR cartridges. Some guys have bought the FKR cartridges as upgrades for the Nix 30mm cartridges that came with the Ohlins forks they bought from me. Then while youre at at buy the IMA special parts adjustable triple trees PANIGALE V4 | Ima Special Parts Ohlins steering damper, sutter dry slipper clutch if you wanted to with the conversion kit and a cover or the EVR dry slipper clutch although I would recommend a wet slipper clutch if you wanted to change your clutch, adjustable levers, lever guards, upgraded Brembo T-Drive brake rotors, upgraded brake master cylinder. Maybe some other things here and there. But the bike would now be totally built for you. Hell maybe instead of the V4SP paint job you choose something else. If I calculated all this just of the top off my head a base model with everything I listed would still cost you less than a 2021 V4SP. Plus dont forget the amount of tax you would save on a base V4 over a V4SP. Here in NY the tax would be $1973.55 on a base V4 and $3274.50 on a V4SP. Its not like the performance is better on a V4SP over the base V4 once you do the upgrades listed. The base would handle better over the V4SP due to the upgraded suspension, carbon fiber body which would lighten the bike, the adjustable triple trees and a few other things here and there that you might add. You would be surprised on the prices you would get from me on all those parts. Just something to mull over.

Or keep the bike you have now and do the upgrades I mentioned