July 2013 Cycle World - BMWHP4 vs 1199R

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Do the haters here understand that BMW went from zero to over 20% of the liter sport bike market in 2 years, and keep on taking market share from everyone and winning just about every head-to-head review of the class?

I briefly considered the S1000RR, and I love my Panigale with no regrets whatsoever, but sheesh, such hate just because of its looks?

You must be the design freaks that buy Dyson vacuums/fans and Bang & Olufsen audio at ridiculous premiums over competitive products because they look so great and likely because a hint of snobbery as well.

is the s1000rr a cool bike....yes

would it be cooler if the headlights didn't look retarded....hell yes

so instead of 20% maybe they should aim for 40% which likely would happen if they got some nice looking headlights.

I owned one and still wouldn't mind an HP4, but those headlights gotta go. Plus it's hardly the most reliable engine in the liter class bunch.
 
get a reliable tool watch and be manly. low budget get something like luminox. Have money to burn, the rolex's look luxury but are tool watches too, models like the sub and dweller or explorer. Many to choose from but no diamonds, please.

.. oh wait , wrong forum :(
 
Plus it's hardly the most reliable engine in the liter class bunch.

I guess I fall into the category that actually likes the asymmetry and understands it as the design language consistent with previous BMW bikes.

Anyway, I didn't know the engines were considered unreliable. One reason I didn't buy one was because so many of my friends do own them. I only had one friend out of 5 who had his bike at the BMW dealership about 5 times for service issues in the first two years of ownership. They were all resolved to his satisfaction and he now has over 35,000 miles on the bike.

So what are the common issues? I don't keep up on the BMW forum or other news trends.

I thought the Gen 4 ZX-10Rs were known as the least reliable liter sport bike motor.
 
I guess I fall into the category that actually likes the asymmetry and understands it as the design language consistent with previous BMW bikes.

Anyway, I didn't know the engines were considered unreliable. One reason I didn't buy one was because so many of my friends do own them. I only had one friend out of 5 who had his bike at the BMW dealership about 5 times for service issues in the first two years of ownership. They were all resolved to his satisfaction and he now has over 35,000 miles on the bike.

So what are the common issues? I don't keep up on the BMW forum or other news trends.

I thought the Gen 4 ZX-10Rs were known as the least reliable liter sport bike motor.

I should say that every manufacturer are going to have some bikes roll off the assembly line with issues. And the majority of bikes are fine from anyone.

However...it seems to me at least (and I'm no expert, but I have seen other more qualified opinions on the matter that agree) that the s1000rr has some design flaws with the lubrication system that can cause premature wear inside the engine.

I still feel the s1000rr engine is more fragile than any other. I mean....they released it in 2010 and they start blowing engines. So then they implement a MANDATORY break in rev limiter. Can someone tell me why NONE of the other manufacturers produce and engine that requires a mandatory enforced rev limiter? I know our little instruction manuals give reccomendations....but they don't force you to.

I know when I had my s1000rr, when I would change the oil I would see huge ass pieces of metal on my oil drain plug magnet. Not the typical shavings I have seen from every other bike I have owned. But, huge pieces.

The S1000rr is a blast to ride, albeit a little boring compared to the pani, and overall it's a cool bike. If they would sort a few things like the headlights, the lubrication system, and the crappy gear box I would love to have another.

And as far as the Gen 4 kawi....they had a couple of recalls, but overall that engine seems to be pretty bulletproof. I have had zero issues with mine whatsoever. And no big ass metal shavings during oil changes!

And FWIW if anyone is looking for an awesome bike and by far the best bang for the buck the gen 4 zx10r is the ..... Far better all around bike than the beemer IMO. Not quite the character of the panigale, but a great machine.
 

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Can't help myself, the color of the swingarm would sway your decision???

Yes, I'll buy ANY bike with a black swingarm. ;)


But yeah... when it comes to aesthetics, there are two things that really bother me about the BMW: The asymmetric headlights and the polished swingarm. Its a personal preference to have the swingarm match the color of the frame. I can live with the headlights but every time I walk up to the bike, that polished swingarm would get annoying.

And yes, visual appearance matters for me. A lot. :p
 
IMHO, I hate to admit it, but I feel the S1000RR is a better bike OVERALL compared to the 1199. But it's another Japanese clone. Boring and ordinary if you aren't redlining.
 
Geez if reliability is your highest priority when buying a bike, get a CBR. They essentially invented the term bulletproof. In so far as reliability goes I've never had a single cause to worry about my s1ks. Even with the 2012 engine recall. That was a manufacturing defect. Not a design flaw. Chit happens and despite the moaning BMW handled it pretty quickly. But feel free to explain black brake / clutch fluid.

I should say that every manufacturer are going to have some bikes roll off the assembly line with issue the majority of bikes are fine from anyone.

However...it seems to me at least (and I'm no expert, but I have seen other more qualified opinions on the matter that agree) that the s1000rr has some design flaws with the lubrication system that can cause premature wear inside the engine.

I still feel the s1000rr engine is more fragile than any other. I mean....they released it in 2010 and they start blowing engines. So then they implement a MANDATORY break in rev limiter. Can someone tell me why NONE of the other manufacturers produce and engine that requires a mandatory enforced rev limiter? I know our little instruction manuals give reccomendations....but they don't force you to.

I know when I had my s1000rr, when I would change the oil I would see huge ass pieces of metal on my oil drain plug magnet. Not the typical shavings I have seen from every other bike I have owned. But, huge pieces.

The S1000rr is a blast to ride, albeit a little boring compared to the pani, and overall it's a cool bike. If they would sort a few things like the headlights, the lubrication system, and the crappy gear box I would love to have another.

And as far as the Gen 4 kawi....they had a couple of recalls, but overall that engine seems to be pretty bulletproof. I have had zero issues with mine whatsoever. And no big ass metal shavings during oil changes!

And FWIW if anyone is looking for an awesome bike and by far the best bang for the buck the gen 4 zx10r is the ..... Far better all around bike than the beemer IMO. Not quite the character of the panigale, but a great machine.

I went to a sport bike day at a nearby dealer yesterday. They had a dyno competition going (I didn't know it was a competition as it was advertised as free dyno runs). I wasn't surprised by the results (177.04 HP 100% stock on a 90F day with 70% humidity). I was suprised that when I left my bike was comfortably holding 2nd place after a good 20 bikes in the class had run. Including a zx10 with full exhaust / ecu unleashed and a modded CBR 1000RR had run. 1st was another HP4 that ran just before mine @180HP. Also bone stock. Both our dyno sheets looked like they were drawn with a straight edge (cept where my rear started to skip on the dyno near top end)

Face it. When BMW entered the liter bike market it was like a kid getting drafted from his high school baseball team, going directly to a major league team and breaking the home run record during his 1st season. And instead of being satisfied with that, they keep pushing the bar forwar. First with DDC. And next year with cornering ABS to help prevent lowsides in turns. And ppl hate on it because of the headlights?

I don't think so. Haters hate cause they feel wronged in some way by what someone else has. The Panigale isn't the bike for me but I don't go around banging on it. When asked why didn't I buy one I usually reply "I don't like the color red" and leave it at that :)
 
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Geez if reliability is your highest priority when buying a bike, get a CBR. They essentially invented the term bulletproof. In so far as reliability goes I've never had a single cause to worry about my s1ks. Even with the 2012 engine recall. That was a manufacturing defect. Not a design flaw. Chit happens and despite the moaning BMW handled it pretty quickly. But feel free to explain black brake / clutch fluid.



I went to a sport bike day at a nearby dealer yesterday. They had a dyno competition going (I didn't know it was a competition as it was advertised as free dyno runs). I wasn't surprised by the results (177.04 HP 100% stock on a 90F day with 70% humidity). I was suprised that when I left my bike was comfortably holding 2nd place after a good 20 bikes in the class had run. Including a zx10 with full exhaust / ecu unleashed and a modded CBR 1000RR had run. 1st was another HP4 that ran just before mine @180HP. Also bone stock. Both our dyno sheets looked like they were drawn with a straight edge (cept where my rear started to skip on the dyno near top end)

Face it. When BMW entered the liter bike market it was like a kid getting drafted from his high school baseball team, going directly to a major league team and breaking the home run record during his 1st season. And instead of being satisfied with that, they keep pushing the bar forwar. First with DDC. And next year with cornering ABS to help prevent lowsides in turns. And ppl hate on it because of the headlights?

I don't think so. Haters hate cause they feel wronged in some way by what someone else has. The Panigale isn't the bike for me but I don't go around banging on it. When asked why didn't I buy one I usually reply "I don't like the color red" and leave it at that :)

Since when does 180hp even hold tenth place at a dyno competition lol.


People hate on it bc it's an ugly bike mate. Not hard to understand. Most riders like to be seen as well as enjoy the ride. IMO race fairings help the hp4 a lot but stock it's at the back of the pack looks wise and that's a valid complaint.

And don't get me started on nannies. If you need abs nannies you shouldn't be riding an hp4 to begin with.

Edit: the hp4 is marginally better than other bikes. People acting like its gods chariot need to wake up and go to the races.
 
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Geez if reliability is your highest priority when buying a bike, get a CBR. They essentially invented the term bulletproof. In so far as reliability goes I've never had a single cause to worry about my s1ks. Even with the 2012 engine recall. That was a manufacturing defect. Not a design flaw. Chit happens and despite the moaning BMW handled it pretty quickly. But feel free to explain black brake / clutch fluid.



I went to a sport bike day at a nearby dealer yesterday. They had a dyno competition going (I didn't know it was a competition as it was advertised as free dyno runs). I wasn't surprised by the results (177.04 HP 100% stock on a 90F day with 70% humidity). I was suprised that when I left my bike was comfortably holding 2nd place after a good 20 bikes in the class had run. Including a zx10 with full exhaust / ecu unleashed and a modded CBR 1000RR had run. 1st was another HP4 that ran just before mine @180HP. Also bone stock. Both our dyno sheets looked like they were drawn with a straight edge (cept where my rear started to skip on the dyno near top end)

Face it. When BMW entered the liter bike market it was like a kid getting drafted from his high school baseball team, going directly to a major league team and breaking the home run record during his 1st season. And instead of being satisfied with that, they keep pushing the bar forwar. First with DDC. And next year with cornering ABS to help prevent lowsides in turns. And ppl hate on it because of the headlights?

I don't think so. Haters hate cause they feel wronged in some way by what someone else has. The Panigale isn't the bike for me but I don't go around banging on it. When asked why didn't I buy one I usually reply "I don't like the color red" and leave it at that :)

Yea thats cool, I hate the f*cking Headlights. The styling as a whole is butt ugly. Its a damn good bike, but when I spend my money one something I want to be prod to own it. If I was going for a track bike it would be a R6, for my street bike I need more then a great motor ... I need passion lol. If the s1000 was a human it would be a ginger .... because it has no soul :D.
 
Geez if reliability is your highest priority when buying a bike, get a CBR. They essentially invented the term bulletproof. In so far as reliability goes I've never had a single cause to worry about my s1ks. Even with the 2012 engine recall. That was a manufacturing defect. Not a design flaw. Chit happens and despite the moaning BMW handled it pretty quickly. But feel free to explain black brake / clutch fluid.



I went to a sport bike day at a nearby dealer yesterday. They had a dyno competition going (I didn't know it was a competition as it was advertised as free dyno runs). I wasn't surprised by the results (177.04 HP 100% stock on a 90F day with 70% humidity). I was suprised that when I left my bike was comfortably holding 2nd place after a good 20 bikes in the class had run. Including a zx10 with full exhaust / ecu unleashed and a modded CBR 1000RR had run. 1st was another HP4 that ran just before mine @180HP. Also bone stock. Both our dyno sheets looked like they were drawn with a straight edge (cept where my rear started to skip on the dyno near top end)

Face it. When BMW entered the liter bike market it was like a kid getting drafted from his high school baseball team, going directly to a major league team and breaking the home run record during his 1st season. And instead of being satisfied with that, they keep pushing the bar forwar. First with DDC. And next year with cornering ABS to help prevent lowsides in turns. And ppl hate on it because of the headlights?

I don't think so. Haters hate cause they feel wronged in some way by what someone else has. The Panigale isn't the bike for me but I don't go around banging on it. When asked why didn't I buy one I usually reply "I don't like the color red" and leave it at that :)

Why are you here....did you buy a pani yet? For being so pro s1000rr you spend a lot of time over here.

And yes....the headlights are that bad

and a dyno "competition" really? seems silly to me. who cares who makes more hp? Seems like a dick measuring contest IMO.
 
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Just talking looks here:

I was at my dealer (which also sells BMW) to get the 41T and decided to walk over and look at/sit on a black S1000rr. I couldn't help but notice how 'plasticky' the bike sounded and felt. It reminded me of my jap bikes. And looking at the frame it just screamed jap bike at me. I'm sure that not everyone will share that view, just my 2.
 
Since when does 180hp even hold tenth place at a dyno competition lol.


People hate on it bc it's an ugly bike mate. Not hard to understand. Most riders like to be seen as well as enjoy the ride. IMO race fairings help the hp4 a lot but stock it's at the back of the pack looks wise and that's a valid complaint.

And don't get me started on nannies. If you need abs nannies you shouldn't be riding an hp4 to begin with.

Edit: the hp4 is marginally better than other bikes. People acting like its gods chariot need to wake up and go to the races.

That's why I was surprised to be in 2nd place nearing the end of the day. Prolly cause it was billed as free dyno runs instead of a contest nobody showed with a truly built bike. As far as the nannies go, I hope either you ride with yours turned off or you never touch the street. Cause my feelings on that matter are the street is unpredictable enough that the best rider can benefit from those nannies when riding it. They damn sure don't hurt and are fast becoming the reality of motorcycle manufacturers. BMW no longer makes a bike without ABS.

Yea thats cool, I hate the f*cking Headlights. The styling as a whole is butt ugly. Its a damn good bike, but when I spend my money one something I want to be prod to own it. If I was going for a track bike it would be a R6, for my street bike I need more then a great motor ... I need passion lol. If the s1000 was a human it would be a ginger .... because it has no soul :D.

Hey my girlfriend is a ginger! :D I love my bike and almost everything about it makes me smile. But when ppl talk about passion, my bike is just a tool. The passion I find is in how I ride it.

You may as well be saying the canvas and paints should invoke passion in the artist. Not actually painting and seeing what he creates.
Why are you here....did you buy a pani yet? For being so pro s1000rr you spend a lot of time over here.

And yes....the headlights are that bad

and a dyno "competition" really? seems silly to me. who cares who makes more hp? Seems like a dick measuring contest IMO.

I went for 2 reasons: see Chris McNeil and to see the dyno chart of my bike. Could care less how much hp it makes since I'll rarely use it. Almost didn't enter when i saw it was a competition till the other HP4 owner convinced me 2 bikes back to back would give the best gauge. Mission accomplished. Chris is damn good on a bike and the dyno chart showed a flawless steady climb in HP.

As for buying a Panigale, not ever. If given the cash to buy a 1199R I'd take it, buy a HP4 base for the track and a ZX636 for my girlfriend. I have my reasons beyond looks for such a choice. And to answer the "why are you here?" part is cause I'm old school: 2 wheels, 1 family. Saw a lot of that at the dealer, mingling with riders from every manufacturer and trading info.

Though some of yall are like the cousin everyone hopes doesn't show or leaves early if he does at gatherings :(
 
But when ppl talk about passion, my bike is just a tool. The passion I find is in how I ride it.

You may as well be saying the canvas and paints should invoke passion in the artist. Not actually painting and seeing what he creates.

+1

And to answer the "why are you here?" part is cause I'm old school: 2 wheels, 1 family. Saw a lot of that at the dealer, mingling with riders from every manufacturer and trading info.

I call BS. Your previous postings have been deliberately antagonizing to 1199 owners. Can't hide that behind "One Love" now.
 
Kuroshio you have made some points that I do agree upon, and some that I don't. No offense intended, but have you ever ridden a 1199?
 
Still don't know why you hang out on the 1199 forum....actually I do....because you want one but won't admit it. If you were totally content with your BMW you would be over there not here.

It's ok.....

I've had both (well not the hp4, but the s1000) and the pani is a lot more fun to own and ride. Don't worry you'll come around:D
 
get a reliable tool watch and be manly. low budget get something like luminox. Have money to burn, the rolex's look luxury but are tool watches too, models like the sub and dweller or explorer. Many to choose from but no diamonds, please.

.. oh wait , wrong forum :(

Back to TURF with you.
Or is it TZ?
:)
 
Kuroshio you have made some points that I do agree upon, and some that I don't. No offense intended, but have you ever ridden a 1199?
Yes. Not long enough of a test ride to make any qualified comparisons to my s1ks or point out specific flaws / virtues. But enough that I didn't feel like I was on the right bike.
Still don't know why you hang out on the 1199 forum....actually I do....because you want one but won't admit it. If you were totally content with your BMW you would be over there not here.

It's ok.....

I've had both (well not the hp4, but the s1000) and the pani is a lot more fun to own and ride. Don't worry you'll come around:D

Ducati1199 EBC and (of course) the dash I'd take in a heartbeat. But as far as my bike is concerned, the only thing I don't like is having to pony up for the race calibration kit for the configuration options and definitive information I want. The "knowns" about some of how the BMW works is only known to the engineers or locked away in the ecu. Being a member on a Honda forum and former owner, the lack of concrete knowledge is annoying at times.
 


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