July 2013 Cycle World - BMWHP4 vs 1199R

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To Montfort,

The article I quoted from is in the latest issue of Australian Motorcycle News which comes out bi weekly. It is issue Volume 62 No 23. It was a test road and track of the base Panigale, base S1000 and base RSV4. You can get it on line, no need for a hard copy.

Next issue will have the same test but with the HP4, Aprilia Factory and Panigale S ( they could not get a Panigale R).

To Duke...

Issue on the Pani...indicators? Dash? Seriously?
You're kidding right? If not then please don't get a Ducati.
 
Duke said:
I'll take that one one the chin and agree I have a degree of that. However, I did ask at the dealer about questionable Italian electrics and was told "maybe 15 years ago but not now" and all I see is turn signal issues, displays crapping out more than once, etc. I am hopeful Audi will sort out the quality issues so I can get into the brand without too much worry. In it's current iteration the BMW is very reliable and I think the extra years warranty adds to that image. The Pani made me smile the moment I got on it but it would piss me off no end if I dropped $20k+ on a bike and had the type of issues people are seeing on here. I know it's part of the ownership experience but nowadays it shouldn't be.

I'll also add the quality of dealership to my stereotypical outlook. My BMW dealer is "no problem", no appointment, test ride it as long as you want, extra curricular events to engender ownership camaraderie and working with me on price, finance and trade values. My Ducati dealers are all "it's a Ducati", take it or leave it.
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The quality of the dealership is a critical element to the ownership experience.
From what you say, then IMO it would make perfect sense to go with BMW:)


Cheers
 
Brad said:
The quality of the dealership is a critical element to the ownership experience.
From what you say, then IMO it would make perfect sense to go with BMW:)


Cheers
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Dealers are dealers, some individuals are better within them but I see very little discernible difference so far.
 

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WAfatboy said:
Dealers are dealers, some individuals are better within them but I see very little discernible difference so far.
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Cross Country BMW in Metuchen, NJ (calm down yall. They sell Ducatis too) "found" me a HP4 Carbon to arrive 2 months before the standard was due to arrive, sent me a check for the registration fees they charged due to a delay in paperwork and repaired my 2011 after a frame cracking lowside. And their techs did it so well it was completely impossible to tell it sustained $8k damage. So well they gave full trade value for the HP4.

All dealers aren't built the same.
 
RedScare said:
Scan of the rest of the article, lap times, etc please?
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As Kuroshio said, it wasn't that type of test, but if you read the full article, it says the HP4 was 0.2 behind the Pani R. Of course, it further says that due to the strict sound limit rules, Eric Bostrom had to pull in the clutch and freewheel for a fast section of the track. Apparently he tried his best to do it as consistently as possible for both bikes but that is simply ridiculous to even quote any advantage/disadvantage due to this technique applied to timed laps. I guess the point of the article is that they were so close as to just call it even, as the Pani R was tested with the road-legal exhaust and the HP4 didn't have the DDC enabled on the front suspension.

The more interesting point to me was that they did dyno testing with the full Termi installed and against a "stock" HP4 with its OEM Akra, the Pani was 4.5 hp behind the HP4. I would love to have seen the dyno charts.

The Pani just appeals to me more, its why I chose it over the HP4 for less money. I had to chuckle in agreement how they said the HP4's colors and graphics reminded them of Sonic the Hedgehog, but not in a flattering way.
 
In conclusion, the Pani was faster on the track (with stock exhaust, no Termis installed), has better brakes and has higher top speed. This is what I read through my rose tinted glasses.
 
I own an 1199r and a full option s1000rr and installed Akra and power commander after a few months of ownership.

beautyandthebest.jpg



Question, do you guys think designer/engineers from both companies would design "Hey let us go make a slow , ugly and a bad handling bike. what do you guys think? let us make sure it will take 20 seconds to reach the rev limiter, use cast iron every where to make it tip the scales at 600lbs dry, let us make sure that the swing arm is crooked as with the frame, any thing that will hold the engine and forks will do. Let us make it look ugly so that the owners will cringe every time they sit on it and do not forget, make it so unreliable so the dealers will make killing with the repair". Definitely no superbike company will build a bike thi sway. For sure Ducati, Bmw and the other companies will design a bike that is fast, reliable and to their own accord, what they percieve as beautiful.

So it is no surprise that when you test the bikes out, the engines roar may it be a vtwin or an inline 4. it handles great and if your bike is built right, no bike will leave you stranded in a middle of nowhere. Manufactureres may experience a few bad batches here and there, base on this forum, the conrod failure of bmw's is a result of a wrong torque specs of a robot? correct me if I am wrong. As with the Pani, you can read on the forums about the complaints of other owners.

BMW is a good bike and it does not cook my buttocks the way the Pani does but the bmw is harder to turn but when you commit to a turn, it inspires confidence, at least for me. The Panigale is very light and very flickable, the power is up to par with the s1000rr but the heat it generates(at slow speeds) is close to unbearable.

For me, the bottom line is both are good bikes and both have quirks. Since this is a Panigale forum, ofcourse majority of us will vote for the Panigale R but we can not deny that the s1000rr has some good parts too, BMW engineers made sure that it will not be a bad bike. at the end of the day, it will be your call.
 
desmodromic system said:
I own an 1199r and a full option s1000rr and installed Akra and power commander after a few months of ownership.

beautyandthebest.jpg



Question, do you guys think designer/engineers from both companies would design "Hey let us go make a slow , ugly and a bad handling bike. what do you guys think? let us make sure it will take 20 seconds to reach the rev limiter, use cast iron every where to make it tip the scales at 600lbs dry, let us make sure that the swing arm is crooked as with the frame, any thing that will hold the engine and forks will do. Let us make it look ugly so that the owners will cringe every time they sit on it and do not forget, make it so unreliable so the dealers will make killing with the repair". Definitely no superbike company will build a bike thi sway. For sure Ducati, Bmw and the other companies will design a bike that is fast, reliable and to their own accord, what they percieve as beautiful.

So it is no surprise that when you test the bikes out, the engines roar may it be a vtwin or an inline 4. it handles great and if your bike is built right, no bike will leave you stranded in a middle of nowhere. Manufactureres may experience a few bad batches here and there, base on this forum, the conrod failure of bmw's is a result of a wrong torque specs of a robot? correct me if I am wrong. As with the Pani, you can read on the forums about the complaints of other owners.

BMW is a good bike and it does not cook my buttocks the way the Pani does but the bmw is harder to turn but when you commit to a turn, it inspires confidence, at least for me. The Panigale is very light and very flickable, the power is up to par with the s1000rr but the heat it generates(at slow speeds) is close to unbearable.

For me, the bottom line is both are good bikes and both have quirks. Since this is a Panigale forum, ofcourse majority of us will vote for the Panigale R but we can not deny that the s1000rr has some good parts too, BMW engineers made sure that it will not be a bad bike. at the end of the day, it will be your call.
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Well said!
 
DucSyd said:
To Montfort,

The article I quoted from is in the latest issue of Australian Motorcycle News which comes out bi weekly. It is issue Volume 62 No 23. It was a test road and track of the base Panigale, base S1000 and base RSV4. You can get it on line, no need for a hard copy.

Next issue will have the same test but with the HP4, Aprilia Factory and Panigale S ( they could not get a Panigale R).

Thanks for this. Had the fairly recent pleasure of experiencing Phillip Island, again. Any idea which circuit AMC is using?
Click to expand...
 
I could say a lot about this but it comes down to personal preference.

The BMW is fugly.

If bang for buck mattered I'd have a CBR1000. Obviously I don't feel cheated on my 1199r. I chose to pay the premium for a reason.

And....lets not forget....Lamborghini makes a pretty crappy 'street' 'everyday' car....and there are still people who find them very appealing.
 
WAfatboy said:
Of the HP4 and 1199S the Pani is still my favourite of the two. I've owned numerous Italian bikes so its easier for me to overlook the foibles of the Pani. That said the HP4 is a great bike and I'll be running them back to back on the track so I'll be able to get a true comparison. When we finally finish tuning the Pani and get the modified exhaust back on it will be a monster, especially with the 41T sprocket. I'm planning to keep the HP4 'stock'.
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would love to hear your thoughts when this is done
 
mark419ny said:
would love to hear your thoughts when this is done
Click to expand...

For sure. Tried running the HP4 down one of my favourite roads today. Came up a bit short of the top speed that I would make on the Pani but was more confident powering through the sweepers. That said I think I've for the Pani set up so well its as stable as the BM at speed. No contest on sound though ;)
 

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WAfatboy said:
For sure. Tried running the HP4 down one of my favourite roads today. Came up a bit short of the top speed that I would make on the Pani but was more confident powering through the sweepers. That said I think I've for the Pani set up so well its as stable as the BM at speed. No contest on sound though ;)
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Thanks for posting a pic at that angle, confirms this bike looks like a redheaded step child. :D

problem-child-finger.jpg
 

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