July 2013 Cycle World - BMWHP4 vs 1199R

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WAfatboy - it's funny that you keep referring to the S1000RR as the "BM". Is that a Freudian slip for "bowel movement"?

Haha, just kidding. I was extremely close to buying an HP4 before the Panigale, but the Ducati NA incentives to blow out the 2012's were too strong for me to resist. I must be the only one on here that actually likes the look of S1K/HP4. The asymmetry makes it distinct and matches the brand design language of the GS and other bikes well.

I think the Cycle World article sums it up well by the last line: "These are both such satisfying yet different motorcycles, but the Panigale R has an explosive edge to it that almost makes it feel like a twin-cylinder MotoGP bike."

wilkson said:
In his opinion it was .
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That's about the highest praise I can imagine for the DDC. If BMW was smart they would leverage this in their advertising/social media as Dave Moss is someone that people who care anything about handling listen to.
 
Really pleased Dave agrees with me! It's the one really standout dynamic thing about the bike that is clearly better than the Panigale.
 
wilkson said:
I have found with the Panigale it is a more "nervous" bike than the BMW for sure .
To me it is the trade off between a bike that turns in quick and is agile to a bike that is a little slower in turning in but more stable at speed .
The Panigale on the track feels small and more like a race bike to me . I also have the same experience with the tail wagging on the Pani but feels controled will try with EPC off as well .
I have not ridden a bike with dynamic damping contol but would be keen . A recent suspension school I did with suspension guru Dave Moss his thoughts was its the best suspension on the market .
The Pani feels like a race bike .
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Wilko,
Was he in Australia or did you have to go to the USA for the school ?
 
He was in Australia . Fatboy he generally dosnt have settings his philosophy is to teach people about suspension and give them understanding so you can set your own . His a non believer of sag settings a well .
 
wilkson said:
He was in Australia . Fatboy he generally dosnt have settings his philosophy is to teach people about suspension and give them understanding so you can set your own . His a non believer of sag settings a well .
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W,
did he explain why he is a non believer in sag settings ?

I always thought that sag setting was meant to balance the bike and make it level for each rider. Must admit I am no suspension expert though, far from it.
 
bradp51 said:
W,
did he explain why he is a non believer in sag settings ?

I always thought that sag setting was meant to balance the bike and make it level for each rider. Must admit I am no suspension expert though, far from it.
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I think he believes everyone should set the sag to how they like he bike and not be guided by measurements . That's he way I saw it but within saying that I have seen him give sag numbers in written text .
I'm like you as in being no expert just trying to get a understanding on what he was teaching us . It was a lot to take in two days but he I'd give me confidence to try different settings o my liking .
 
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WAfatboy said:
I actually think this is where price becomes relevant. The HP4 standard is minus some of carbon and levers but has the mechanicals, race exhaust and lighter wheels of the competition version and here costs $30k, essentially the same a base Pani. So the comparison should really be between bikes of similar cost because in the real world (not a mag) that would be your choice. i.e. if I had $30k would I buy the High Performance model BM or the base level 1199. Price has to be a consideration to ensure a level playing field.
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I'd have to disagree.
Price is only a factor if you are buying on price. Or assessing something on the basis of percieved value for money where cost is a major consideration.

Otherwise something can be compared from the basis of a set of specifications and or intended purpose.

There are some things about products you can't put a price on, or at the very least it's extremely difficult to evaluate. Especially at these price points.
 
Brad said:
I'd have to disagree.
Price is only a factor if you are buying on price. Or assessing something on the basis of percieved value for money where cost is a major consideration.

Otherwise something can be compared from the basis of a set of specifications and or intended purpose.

There are some things about products you can't put a price on, or at the very least it's extremely difficult to evaluate. Especially at these price points.
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Do not most people buy based on price as a huge factor in the buying decision??? I think its naive to think otherwise... I bought the standard for many reasons but if the S were the same price I would've bought that.. So I guess I don't really understand how to can ever remove price from the buying decision???
 
I don't think it is removed, per se, just lessened in cases such as this where the item is not only a luxury (something you don't need) but is also exotic and at the high end of the cost spectrum compared to other options (a 4 year old GSXR for example). Most people here could buy whichever bike (or two or three or four) they wanted, but chose this one for a reason and I doubt it was cost effectiveness or perceived value for the money.
 
Motorcycles are an emotional purchase and often time price doesnt enter into the equation. At least for me or I wouldn't of purchased a Tri. I think hobbies are somewhat exempt of the price makes a difference rule. my 2 cents
 
MUNDMAN said:
Motorcycles are an emotional purchase and often time price doesnt enter into the equation. At least for me or I wouldn't of purchased a Tri. I think hobbies are somewhat exempt of the price makes a difference rule. my 2 cents
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True...there isn't anything particularly rational about buying Panis or HP4s at all.
 
Capt CF said:
True...there isn't anything particularly rational about buying Panis or HP4s at all.
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Yeah there is.... we buy the 1199 for the reliability and resale values...:D
 
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Stw said:
Yeah there is.... we buy the 1199 for the reliability and resale values...:rolleyes:
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I would ABSOLUTELY not buy the 1199 or ANY duc for those reasons, but that is just my opinion after owning a few of them. I bought it because I loved it and nothing else would do. If I wanted reliability and resale value I would stick to Yamaha or Honda probably, although I hear good things about the BMWs and am thinking about picking one up at some point. It won't be an HP4 or S1Krr though since those are too similar to the 1199 (imho). I'll get a dual sport or a sport touring bike most likely.
 
Capt CF said:
I would ABSOLUTELY not buy the 1199 or ANY duc for those reasons, but that is just my opinion after owning a few of them. I bought it because I loved it and nothing else would do. If I wanted reliability and resale value I would stick to Yamaha or Honda probably, although I hear good things about the BMWs and am thinking about picking one up at some point.
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I guess my sarcasm was missed...:)
 

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