July 2013 Cycle World - BMWHP4 vs 1199R

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MUNDMAN said:
Motorcycles are an emotional purchase and often time price doesnt enter into the equation. At least for me or I wouldn't of purchased a Tri. I think hobbies are somewhat exempt of the price makes a difference rule. my 2 cents
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True...there isn't anything particularly rational about buying Panis or HP4s at all.
 
Capt CF said:
True...there isn't anything particularly rational about buying Panis or HP4s at all.
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Yeah there is.... we buy the 1199 for the reliability and resale values...:D
 
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Stw said:
Yeah there is.... we buy the 1199 for the reliability and resale values...:rolleyes:
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I would ABSOLUTELY not buy the 1199 or ANY duc for those reasons, but that is just my opinion after owning a few of them. I bought it because I loved it and nothing else would do. If I wanted reliability and resale value I would stick to Yamaha or Honda probably, although I hear good things about the BMWs and am thinking about picking one up at some point. It won't be an HP4 or S1Krr though since those are too similar to the 1199 (imho). I'll get a dual sport or a sport touring bike most likely.
 
Capt CF said:
I would ABSOLUTELY not buy the 1199 or ANY duc for those reasons, but that is just my opinion after owning a few of them. I bought it because I loved it and nothing else would do. If I wanted reliability and resale value I would stick to Yamaha or Honda probably, although I hear good things about the BMWs and am thinking about picking one up at some point.
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I guess my sarcasm was missed...:)
 
Capt CF said:
Or the recent influx of all you BMW nuthuggers. :)
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Haha... Well I have ridden it... didn't like it... so whilst I have a huge respect for that bike... I'm no "nuthugger".. But even if I was I think there's no sense in people getting so irate about all these recent topics..Geesh..its a forum.. can we not express our views with out resorting to expletives.name calling and general angst????
 
i did buy the Base model Pani due to the value that i perceived relative to that of the upmarket model 1199s. that and the fact that it met my riding needs best. fwiw, yes, i test rode both the Base and the S, and have owned many, many Ducatis as well. the Base model was more than enough for what i needed, and the price at which i bought my bike for made the decision that much easier to make.

:)
 
oalvarez said:
i did buy the Base model Pani due to the value that i perceived relative to that of the upmarket model 1199s. that and the fact that it met my riding needs best. fwiw, yes, i test rode both the Base and the S, and have owned many, many Ducatis as well. the Base model was more than enough for what i needed, and the price at which i bought my bike for made the decision that much easier to make.

:)
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That's a good point. When looking at the range of models I think price vs. perceived value for each of the feature sets included comes into play (at least it did for me). You may decide you want the electronic suspension, different wheels, etc. and opt for the S, but stop there because the termi slips and fancy paint job don't seem to be "worth it" when looking at the tri, etc. Everybody draws that line a bit differently.
 
Superbike Magazine (June issue) said it best IMO:

"Either way, you either love this bike even more than you did ten minutes ago, or you hate it even more than you thought possible. I love it. I don't care that the BMW HP4 is cheaper, it's probably quicker too. Ducati ownership stretches to more than the Tefal heads in Munch can comprehend.

One is FULL of Emotion, the other completely Emotion FREE."

This to me sum up why I ride Ducati vs others.
:D
 
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Can't say I agree with price not facting in. When I was looking for a liter bike, price kicked Honda to the curb. MSRP for the CBR1000rr was just under $15k for the ABS model. Pre ttl and dealer cost. A brand new 2011 s1000rr was $16k otd and that added DTC and QS on top of ABS.

Honda may have been my 1st love. But the price wasn't worth the value. And the s1k proved that point the first time I ran her over the manhole cover near my house I consistently slipped the rear on with my previous bikes (for some stupid reason, Philly puts manholes in the middle of the lane instead of the street).
 
Duke said:
With respect, this is a typical Ducatisti response. The BMWs didn't blow engines and they didn't fall over as a rule. When one or two instances came to the attention of BMW they quickly recalled them all and dealt with it promptly.

Ducati have yet to officially acknowledge there is a problem with the displays and the soft paint and the turn signals and the cutting out and the stability at high speeds and the...well you get the picture. I'm guessing there are far more S1000RRs out there with fewer reported problems. And as for the "experts" comment...nearly every review I have read, including by pro Ducati journos I respect and ex Ducati guys like Neil Hodgson say they are faster on the Beemer and that it is a better all round bike for street and track.

For the record I have not had any issues at all with my S1000RR (I did get the kick stand recall letter but my kick stand was fine and I only had the work done out of an abundance of caution). It doesn't get the heart pumping like an 1199 at road legal speeds but I have total confidence that it will not leave me stranded or cut out randomly at a red light, etc and pinned on the track it will blow past pretty much anything given the right rider.

Again, I love the Panigale but it is clearly a flawed concept in it's current conception and needs attention in a few key areas to make it compete in pro racing and on forecourts. I really hope Ducati succeed with it as I deeply want to buy one but want to do so in clear conscience.
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Clearly flawed? I have a 2012 S model with zero of those flaws. The dash had the heat turn signal issue and was fixed promptly. Stability at speed? I took it up to 170mph at COTA last weekend and the bike didnt care. It was fast enough to pass an HP4 in the straights so until I see or experience these issues id chalk it up to Internet sensationalism.

I'm sure given equal riders the hp4 could be a tad faster but significantly faster? Nope. Its close enough that I really don't give it any thought so far. But I'm just an intermediate rider. Maybe when I'm as good as these pro riders I will see a difference.


Edit: wtf is soft paint? Lmao the paint is just fine.
 
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oalvarez said:
i did buy the Base model Pani due to the value that i perceived relative to that of the upmarket model 1199s. that and the fact that it met my riding needs best. fwiw, yes, i test rode both the Base and the S, and have owned many, many Ducatis as well. the Base model was more than enough for what i needed, and the price at which i bought my bike for made the decision that much easier to make.

:)
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Knowing what I know now I would have bought the base too. Now I'm going to have nice S parts sitting in my garage as I replace them with bodywork and upgraded suspension bits.
 
gatti man said:
Clearly flawed? I have a 2012 S model with zero of those flaws. The dash had the heat turn signal issue and was fixed promptly. Stability at speed? I took it up to 170mph at COTA last weekend and the bike didnt care. It was fast enough to pass an HP4 in the straights so until I see or experience these issues id chalk it up to Internet sensationalism.

I'm sure given equal riders the hp4 could be a tad faster but significantly faster? Nope. Its close enough that I really don't give it any thought so far. But I'm just an intermediate rider. Maybe when I'm as good as these pro riders I will see a difference.


Edit: wtf is soft paint? Lmao the paint is just fine.
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Lol. Can you see the irony of saying it's not flawed because you had some of the flaws repaired? BTW some people have had the display replaced more than once so it's not necessarily resolved. All the other issues I mentioned are clearly detailed on this forum. I'm also seeing the "No problem here...uh-oh, just noticed it" type of posts. The stability issue has been mentioned by almost every review I have seen - probably a result if it being a light bike which is a plus and a minus. I'm glad you are happy with it. That's all that matters.

The bike needs another update cycle or two to iron out the gremlins IMHO. That's all I'm saying. There's a lot of tinkering with sprockets, mapping, exhausts, heat shields, fairings, seats, etc to get it right whereas the S1000RR and RSV4 are closer to ready right out of the box because they have been refreshed a few times. I'll bet the 2014 Panigale will be a much more refined product (and I mean with regards to quality and ownership, not just performance).

I'm not trying to be confrontational, it's just my humble view on the options right now.
 
Duke said:
Lol. Can you see the irony of saying it's not flawed because you had some of the flaws repaired? BTW some people have had the display replaced more than once so it's not necessarily resolved. All the other issues I mentioned are clearly detailed on this forum. I'm also seeing the "No problem here...uh-oh, just noticed it" type of posts. The stability issue has been mentioned by almost every review I have seen - probably a result if it being a light bike which is a plus and a minus. I'm glad you are happy with it. That's all that matters.

The bike needs another update cycle or two to iron out the gremlins IMHO. That's all I'm saying. There's a lot of tinkering with sprockets, mapping, exhausts, heat shields, fairings, seats, etc to get it right whereas the S1000RR and RSV4 are closer to ready right out of the box because they have been refreshed a few times. I'll bet the 2014 Panigale will be a much more refined product (and I mean with regards to quality and ownership, not just performance).

I'm not trying to be confrontational, it's just my humble view on the options right now.
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To me an issue is something that can't be fixed. The dash issue has been fixed for me. I'm not mad or anything just in my experience the Internet tends to magnify issues. I think the HP4 is a slick bike but the idea that any of us would be measureably faster on it is laughable imo. The bike is a tad better in pro hands. If it really was sizeably better I don't think I would be passing them on track days in stock tires no less.

Stability at high speeds could be many things. All I can say is my set up bike doesn't do it.

As for ownership the bike is easy to own. It starts right up, performs on road and track, is rock solid in corners, and sounds amazing. Its never let me down. Not that any bike ever has that I've owned though. In my experience you take care of a bike and it takes care of you.
 
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I had my ducati parked outside the gym last night after I went for a ride. Some random dude driving a Cadillac CTS drove by. Then came back, parked next to the pani and got out. He and his wife then proceeded to stare at the bike for a good 10 minutes before getting back in his car and driving off. He must have been in his late 40's/early 50's.

Enough said....it's a beautiful work of art that just happens to excite your senses just as much the moment you ride it.
 
Duke said:
Lol. Can you see the irony of saying it's not flawed because you had some of the flaws repaired? BTW some people have had the display replaced more than once so it's not necessarily resolved. All the other issues I mentioned are clearly detailed on this forum. I'm also seeing the "No problem here...uh-oh, just noticed it" type of posts. The stability issue has been mentioned by almost every review I have seen - probably a result if it being a light bike which is a plus and a minus. I'm glad you are happy with it. That's all that matters.

The bike needs another update cycle or two to iron out the gremlins IMHO. That's all I'm saying. There's a lot of tinkering with sprockets, mapping, exhausts, heat shields, fairings, seats, etc to get it right whereas the S1000RR and RSV4 are closer to ready right out of the box because they have been refreshed a few times. I'll bet the 2014 Panigale will be a much more refined product (and I mean with regards to quality and ownership, not just performance).

I'm not trying to be confrontational, it's just my humble view on the options right now.
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Every Manufacturers haver their issue and you will be surprised how many issues there are that the public isn't even aware of. The engineers and executives are well aware for the most part of reliability issues some are fixed because of safety concerns and company liability and some are not fixed due to controlling cost. Manufactures are not in the business to lose money they are in the business to make a profit and sell their product at a reasonable price vs their cost. Comparing the BMW S1000RR/HP4 vs RSV4 vs 1199 is really debatable for being ready out of the box. Everyone does not ride the same and it depends on your riding style. My choice for going with the base over the S was not a financial decision, hell I orginally went in to buy the Tri knowing what it cost but as I demo the S and BMW back to back through the canyons I decided to go with the base because I hated the DES OEM Ohlins on the Pani and the heavy steering and weight of the BMW (I also couldn't get over the head lights). I bought the base and poured the money i would have spent on the Tri into the base to customize it they way I want it to perform and look and I couldn't be any happier on the streets, canyons, track and looking at it in my garage at night.
 
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gnance said:
I had my ducati parked outside the gym last night after I went for a ride. Some random dude driving a Cadillac CTS drove by. Then came back, parked next to the pani and got out. He and his wife then proceeded to stare at the bike for a good 10 minutes before getting back in his car and driving off. He must have been in his late 40's/early 50's.

Enough said....it's a beautiful work of art that just happens to excite your senses just as much the moment you ride it.
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+1
During my decision between buying the Pani and S1K I kept thinking if I owned the SK1, I would of felt like I was shallow Hal dating a fat ugly girl trying to look at other qualities in her.:eek:
 
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